Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   linear cannon (linear@nya.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 09:32:37 JST linear cannon

   it would be nice if it were actually as easy to contribute to free/open source software as the developers and maintainers of such software claim it is
   
   but meritocracy is a lie, and bullshit policies and procedures (see: "real name" policy) scare away minorities who might otherwise do important work

   • MondoBizarrro likes this.
   • Kit Rhett Aultman, AnthonyJK-Admin and novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 09:32:28 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to
     @linear it's probably for documenting copyright assignment
   • Embed this notice
     linear cannon (linear@nya.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 09:32:35 JST linear cannon

     in reply to

     i have outright deleted a major patchset i wrote for a project under freedesktop.org stewardship, which someone else is probably going to write again in a year or two, because i realized the project had a real-name policy, and decided it wasn't worth it. i then lost motivation for the cool thing i was working on that needed me to write that patch
     
     this is not the intended effect of a "real-name" policy, but it is the actual effect. and, as the cool kids say, "the system is what it does".
     
     there is no such thing as a "real name". the concept of a "legal name" is fraught, and most certainly is not what you think it is, or what you are looking for, if you are a software developer. many assumptions you have about what a "legal name" is probably are not true.
     
     consider this: the name on my birth certificate is different than the name on my drivers license, and that is different from the names i am called by my friends. those names are all different from what is likely to be on my passport when i get it, and all of those are different than the name i publish my open source projects under. all of these, in different jurisdictions, might or might not be something you could consider a "legal name". which one do you want me to use when i submit a major feature to your library? are you going to turn me away if i try to submit it as "linear cannon"? why? if i have a website and contact information under that name, why does this matter? how is it substantially different than an author of fiction novels publishing under a pen name? does it change if i produce a piece of government-issued documentation with that name on it? why, or why not?
     
     if your real name policy does not answer these questions adequately, then there's a very good chance i'm just going to assume that you're going to turn me away, as has happened to me several times already

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ and Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 11:14:46 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to
     @linear
     
     i'm using a pseudonym right now and funny enough more of my loved ones use this name for me than my legal name and i wouldn't do it either so i sympathize with you. i wrote up a reply but i realized i don't want to be a busybody in your earnest thread, so sorry.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and Seahorses are horses like this.
   • Embed this notice
     linear cannon (linear@nya.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 11:14:48 JST linear cannon

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon

     @Moon@shitposter.club yes. it is. that doesn't address any of the questions i posed, though. which "legal name" of mine is it that you want, and why? how is me submitting under the name "linear cannon" any different than an author writing a book under a pen name?

   • Embed this notice
     linear cannon (linear@nya.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 11:40:04 JST linear cannon

     in reply to

     • Adam Shostack :donor: :rebelverified:
     • Irenes (many)

     @adamshostack@infosec.exchange @irenes@mastodon.social thank you for this information

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Adam Shostack :donor: :rebelverified: (adamshostack@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 11:40:06 JST Adam Shostack :donor: :rebelverified:

     in reply to

     • Irenes (many)

     @linear @irenes The US office of science and tech policy has an open call for comments about the future of open source security. I want to encourage you to tell them about your choices so they don’t randomly default to “of course wallet names are a fine thing”

   • Embed this notice
     Irenes (many) (irenes@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 11:41:01 JST Irenes (many)

     in reply to

     • Adam Shostack :donor: :rebelverified:

     @adamshostack @linear we likewise encourage this but we note that the entire framing of "security" as the driver behind why government needs to get involved is corporate and statist, and existing publications about the intent have called for tying everything to legal identity, and we see very little chance that there is going to be a change of direction. still, it's important to register dissent.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 17:41:30 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @linear there seems to be some consistent opinion that doxing yourself will lead to better behavior (somehow.) i'm not aware that it actually works. i've ignored attempting to contribute to Zrhythm for having the same policy.
   • Embed this notice
     Ethical Pedophile (blinkrape@posting.lolicon.rocks)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 19:37:20 JST Ethical Pedophile

     in reply to

     • THOT POLICE
     • iced depresso
     @s8n @icedquinn @linear Here is what you do OP, instead of deleting your hard work like a bitch, you fork the project, apply your patch, then make sure everyone in the original branch knows you did the work and it is sitting there staring them in the face like a bunch of stupid niggers.
     
     If they really want it bad enough, they'll come to you offering to make an exception. Or at least ask you to pick something that sounds like a real name. Do you really need to sign your work "linear cannon" if "James Ortega" or some random shit will satisfy them?
     
     Otherwise just keep it around as a "fuck you" card and any time it looks like they are trying to jack your work, start a social media shitstorm or threaten to sue them, or whatever.
     
     Giving up and going away is exactly what they want you to do.
      likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     THOT POLICE (s8n@posting.lolicon.rocks)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 19:37:24 JST THOT POLICE

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @linear they think you won't say you hope palestinians rape and murder every single jew when the ADL can track you down and tell the kike who runs your payroll system to fire your ass
      repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 19:38:42 JST 

     in reply to

     • THOT POLICE
     • iced depresso
     • Ethical Pedophile
     @BlinkRape @icedquinn @linear @s8n He doesn't want to contribute, he wants to be mad.
     Husky_1696934293913_F4VULQ9BP7.…
   • Embed this notice
     tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 19:53:35 JST tyil

     in reply to

     @linear@nya.social Back in my day it was just "yeah sure just send me an email with your patch", and I still use that methodology. But I agree that nowadays the norm is "yeah you must accept our license, our terms, our CoC, you must use this specific platform in this specific way, and we have a bot to automate it so learn that syntax too pls". I don't think I've seen a project require a real name to be used yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is a real thing.
     
     All in all, #GitHub and all its "features" have been a disaster for the development community.

     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 20:28:07 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • THOT POLICE
     • Ryu
     @4ae515ec75aada2816397dda84cc63c2ca1e2b27bf49f173abda9764b9bde35b @linear @s8n this really isn't the thread for this kind of thing :neofox_pensive:
   • Embed this notice
     Ryu (4ae515ec75aada2816397dda84cc63c2ca1e2b27bf49f173abda9764b9bde35b@mostr.pub)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 20:28:09 JST Ryu

     in reply to

     • THOT POLICE
     • iced depresso
     I'll say it anyway:
     I want the kikes to get theirs tenfold.
   • Embed this notice
     samueldr (samueldr@ap.samueldr.com)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 22:26:52 JST samueldr

     in reply to
     @linear it's even worse when considering it's not even required (AFAIK) for holding copyright...
     
     ... and also sometimes people are most well-known as their aliases. We should normalize people having "internet names" (for a lack of a more generic framing), not unlike stage names for actors.
     
     There's a developer with the name Bob Bobson? Sorry, you have to pick a new name to work publicly as.
   • Embed this notice
     Ignas Kiela (ignaloidas@not.acu.lt)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2023 03:16:19 JST Ignas Kiela

     in reply to

     @linear@nya.social tbh what's infuriating about names is that even when as a programmer you understand the peculiarities of them as they relate to your specific application, you end up needing to bring dumb workarounds just because others have dumb misconceptions about them. E.g. when building a system that dealt with ID documents, we ended up needing to accept and return names in a very confused format with first and last names as separate fields and stuff, while most documents don't really differentiate them strongly - at least in ICAO compliant documents there's just a Name field, which might have a separator marking that it has more than one part, but it also might not - mononyms are common in some parts of the world.
     
     But trying to convince others of that is hard, and it made more business sense to just have two fields, even though it's wrong.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     🐧sima🐧 (sima@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2023 03:17:19 JST 🐧sima🐧

     in reply to

     • Dave Airlie

     @linear @airlied

     3. if we do have projects that have a real name policy in their docs or require it, we need to fix it because that just flat out violates our CoC and values as an org. I'd much appreciate if you can reach out (in private if you prefer) so we can sort this out

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     🐧sima🐧 (sima@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2023 03:17:20 JST 🐧sima🐧

     in reply to

     • Dave Airlie

     @linear I'm on the board of that org, and we shouldn't have this. but it's a bit complicated

     1. drm subsystem never enforced the real name policy, and @airlied and me as subsystem maintainers put that on record https://lore.kernel.org/dri-devel/CAKMK7uG+TeATXctJaXBgSRxpinDdtOhGa+o2CMPaPtO1QyHtJA@mail.gmail.com/

     it's now also officially fixed for the kernel overall https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=d4563201f33a022fc0353033d9dfeb1606a88330

     2. some projects require the https://www.developercertificate.com/ and there's the common misconception that this requires a "real name". it doesn't, and never has

     1/2

   • Embed this notice
     Jani Nikula (jani@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2023 03:18:09 JST Jani Nikula

     in reply to

     • 🐧sima🐧
     • Dave Airlie

     @sima @linear @airlied

     On a related note, in most cases any real name policy just crumbles when you realize how difficult it is to actually enforce in practise. Usually it becomes a "name that seems plausibly real to some group of people with a certain cultural background policy".

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Jess👾 (jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2023 03:19:10 JST Jess👾

     in reply to

     I think that the underlying desire in real name contributor policies is being able to define a chain of trust that this specific piece of meat is tied to this specific identity. Which I understand that desire. If you're trying to fight fraud and abuse, not to mention various legal liability and regulatory requirements, you want to have that identity to have a meaningful connection back to an actual specific oxygen consuming anxiety generator. The problem, as you point out, is that a "legal name" is not a catch all linkage between one feces producer and an identity. Oh sure, it works in many cases for people who are born and die with the same exact name, and aren't generally faced with harassment and abuse for that name being public information. That is traditionally ... cis men ... Which is the solution they've chosen to solve for.

     Instead, there needs to be a more inclusive consideration of how to link an identity to a specific conglomeration of synapses - one that accepts that some people require pseudonyms, and that some peoples' identity relationship with governments can be complicated at best and adversarial at worst.

     @linear

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     pomstan (pomstan@xn--p1abe3d.xn--80asehdb)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2023 03:46:21 JST pomstan

     in reply to

     • THOT POLICE
     • iced depresso
     • Ethical Pedophile

     @BlinkRape @icedquinn @linear @s8n yeah i was under impression that kernel contributions must be signed using your legal name but @marcan proved otherwise

      likes this.