Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:16:19 JST Adam F. Lawton

   Would you say that we live in a largely progressive or largely regressive society?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:16:18 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     @Adam_Cadmon1
     Since rejecting binaries is my hobby*:

     It’s both. What we’re living through is a reshuffling, concentration, and consolidation of those factions, both politically and geographically.

     On •average•, overall trajectory of my lifetime is progressive, no doubt about it.

     However:

     (1) Regressive faction is increasingly so.

     (2) Geographic consolidation means anti-democratic forces (EC, gerrymandering, suppression, etc.) give increasing power to the shrinking regressive faction.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:17:25 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     @Adam_Cadmon1
     * (but no, I am not an Apple App Store reviewer)

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:53:09 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6
     • Big Jesus Trashcan☑️🏴
     • ARadSkullMug

     @BigJesusTrashcan @spitandtears @paul_ipv6 @Adam_Cadmon1
     And there’s the thing: there’s a complementary sense of a past that never was on the left re the 60s, when yes, we made tremendous strides in a progressive •direction•, but that was in the context of a society that was far more regressive. Just like…for example, society accepting legal same-sex marriage was utterly unthinkable for at least half my life. Or say what you will about the ACA, that was light years beyond the world I grew up in.

   • Embed this notice
     Big Jesus Trashcan☑️🏴 (bigjesustrashcan@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:53:10 JST Big Jesus Trashcan☑️🏴

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6
     • Paul Cantrell
     • ARadSkullMug

     @spitandtears @paul_ipv6 @Adam_Cadmon1 @inthehands If it was the good ol' days no one I've ever loved would be acceptable in their eyes. Black/Jews Anarchists? Yeah that is a hard pass from me but I do still have hope that we can make it better for a future sans hate.

   • Embed this notice
     ARadSkullMug (spitandtears@ohai.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:53:22 JST ARadSkullMug

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6
     • Paul Cantrell

     @paul_ipv6 @Adam_Cadmon1 @inthehands Selling the idea of a past that never was is a hallmark of authoritarian movements

   • Embed this notice
     Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:53:24 JST Paul_IPv6

     in reply to

     • Paul Cantrell

     @Adam_Cadmon1 @inthehands

     one of the other things i think reagan did was normalize the fantasy of the 50s that never was, the stepford wives dream instead of the american dream. even blue collar MAGA seem to be buying into a past that never was.

   • Embed this notice
     Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:53:25 JST Adam F. Lawton

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6
     • Paul Cantrell

     @paul_ipv6 @inthehands I can see that. Reagan was truly unique in his era, in terms of economic and social policy regression. Things just really accelerated with the GWOT. It became an excuse to enact every draconian and reactionary policy approach imaginable. Little ray of hope with Obama until you realize hes the contemporary face of neo-liberalism. And then the Great Recession happens. Then Trump. Then Charlottesville. Then 1/6. And I skipped the "mundane" political and judicial appointments

   • Embed this notice
     Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:53:26 JST Adam F. Lawton

     in reply to

     • Paul Cantrell

     @inthehands y'know, that's about my read as well. The trajectory definitely looked progressive up through and including the 90s and then 9/11 happened. I'm not saying 9/11 was a catalyst for the change in society, though I do think it played a significant role, I just use it as a time marker.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 08:53:26 JST Paul_IPv6

     in reply to

     • Paul Cantrell

     @Adam_Cadmon1 @inthehands

     i'd put the reagan years, newt, etc. as the start of regression this cycle. 9/11 was the excuse for heavy clamp downs on things other than just taxes/govt spending that started with regan. it sure feels like a pretty steady eroding of social progressiveness wins of the 60s-late 80s. TFG/MAGA let those folks feel empowered to say aloud what they'd been pushing for since reagan (and the civil war...).

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 09:02:00 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6
     • William Pietri

     @williampietri @Adam_Cadmon1 @paul_ipv6
     I think you’re on the the right track there. I’d quibble with “false dawn.” Obama in 2008 was a true shift in the waters — not a bait and switch, but an honest-to-god tipping point. And it was in 2010 when the Republicans realized that war-mongering wasn’t enough for them to cling to power anymore, and they made the shift from tolerating / coddling / co-opting fascism to embracing it outright.

   • Embed this notice
     William Pietri (williampietri@sfba.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 09:02:01 JST William Pietri

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6
     • Paul Cantrell

     @Adam_Cadmon1 @paul_ipv6 @inthehands Yeah, there are many good ways to break this, but personally I think of it in terms of long cycles of action and reaction around power distribution. So slavery -> Civil War -> Reconstruction -> the Nadir -> Second Reconstruction / Civil Rights Era -> Second Nadir (now).

     In that framework, Reagan fits as the beginning of our era in that he was the acceptable face of a lot of reactionary forces, the anti-integrationists and the anti-feminists included, and a clear turn away from the 60s/70s increases in freedom. But it obviously picked up steam with the GWOT. Then after the false dawn of Obama, we get the US right losing their minds (partly in reaction to him). We're not done yet, but I'm hoping things like the base blowing out the Speaker mark a turning point.