Preston Werner
Hi all, I been living in Jerusalem for 7 years, politically active for 4. There are many people who understand much better what is going on in Israel/Palestine right now as well as its context, but maybe you, reading this, don't know such a person.
Feel free to ask any questions that you might have for someone on the ground, and I will either answer them or find an answer from someone who would know.
Preston Werner
@racs @useless_idiot
Ah I took a look at your profile and I see that you are also celebrating the death of Israeli civilians. Blocked. Stop making Pro-Palestinian activists look like a bunch of antisemitic assholes, thanks.
Racs
Preston Werner
Palestinians will face a lot of violence in the coming days, both institutional and vigilante. It is as foreseeable as it is tragic.
But I feel *very* uncomfortable with you suggesting that the Israeli civilians who have been killed and kidnapped are somehow not 'real victims', and I'd ask you to maybe rethink that framing, especially if/when you are talking to someone who spent a chunk of the day in a bomb shelter making sure friends in the south were ok.
Racs
Preston Werner
@useless_idiot
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by mobilization, but the army reserves have been called up, and the "Brothers in Arms" group, which had been protesting Netanyahu's judicial reform proposal by refusing to show up for reserve duty, has called off their strike and asked everyone to show up for reserve duty.
Preston Werner
@useless_idiot
Unsolicited addition: Rocket attack based conflict between Gaza and Israel is saddeningly common, happening almost every year.
What is so unique about this morning's attack is the border breach. Hamas broke through the border fence, and dozens of gunmen invaded several Jewish villages near the border of Gaza. Many hostages have been taken into Gaza - it is unclear how many right now, the army seems to have censored much reporting on this issue for the moment. Hamas claims that they have also kidnapped several IDF soldiers.
This is something that is incomprehensible to the Israeli public, who has been hearing for years and years about the technological wonders of the border wall between Gaza and Israel, which should have theoretically caught this breach immediately and not only did not, but left villages surrounding Gaza completely unprotected, with no army presence.
Useless Idiot 🇳🇱 🥀⌛
Thanks! Did any rockets fall on Jerusalem? What about Tel Aviv? Any talk about mobilization?
Useless Idiot 🇳🇱 🥀⌛
Is there fighting in Jerusalem?
Preston Werner
@useless_idiot
There were clashes in East Jerusalem earlier today, but nothing like what is going on near Gaza, more like a small riot, less like a military invasion.
Right now, at least West Jerusalem feels very calm, after a morning full of rocket sirens every 10-15 minutes. I was in the East during the morning - it was very calm where I was, but now and then you'd hear stun grenades in the distance.
Preston Werner
@ghast
I'm a leftist, I am engaged in pro-Palestinian activism. So no, it wouldn't be unbiased.
A quick scroll through your profile reveals that you are an antisemite who is happy to "see Jewish civilians slaughtered". Blocked.
Ghast
@pjw Totally unbiased, certainly.
Preston Werner
Oof, Cousin, question (a) is a doozy, in part because it is of course very complicated and in part because it is very depressing. Let me return to that in a second.
(b) There are four different possible situations that a Palestinian can be born into.
Situations 1 and 2 are quite similar, so let me lump them together for purpose of your question - Palestinians born in Gaza or the West Bank cannot become Israeli citizens. At best, they *may* be able to get a work permit which does not allow them to sleep in Israel but allows them to enter between certain hours of the day for work only. These permits are highly coveted by the dispossessed population, there are not enough to go around, and their amount can be raised or lowered by Israel as a bargaining chip.
One exception is that Gazans and Palestinians from the West Bank, if they marry an Israeli citizen, are *sometimes* able to receive residency, which entitles them to some but not all rights that citizens have.
Situation 3: East Jerusalem. A Palestinian born in East Jerusalem is given a residency permit automatically, which allows them to travel and work within Israel. They are allowed to apply for citizenship, and in theory (and often right wing Israelis will falsely claim) it is supposed to be available to any East Jerusalemite. But it is actually a process that only some succeed at, as it is convoluted, expensive, and many are rejected.
East Jerusalemites who apply for citizenship are also often harassed by fellow Palestinians for normalizing the occupation, so there is a social cost as well. However, my (incomplete) understanding is that this is becoming more acceptable in some sectors of East Jerusalem society.
East Jerusalemites can in theory move into Israel proper, although in many cities and towns this is de facto impossible because of implicit and explicit racist policies against renting to Palestinians.
Situation 4 are Palestinian citizens of Israel, who are, well, citizens, so they formally enjoy all rights that an Israeli Jew enjoys. (Of course they face discrimination, but in theory they are legally equal.)
Cousin_Martha_Corey
@pjw Thanks for offering to answer questions.
I have studied this issue very little. What I would like to know is:
a) What would the Israeli government like Palestinians to do? (E.g., where does the government want them to go?)
and
b) If a Palestinian wanted to move from what I suppose are called the “occupied territories” (the Gaza strip and the West Bank) to the middle of Jerusalem – get an apartment, get a job, etc., and just live like an Israeli citizen – could he or she do that? If not, and if Israel says that these areas are part of Israel, why can these people (those who were born on land that Israel claims) not move freely and have all the normal benefits of living in Israel?
Cousin_Martha_Corey
@pjw Thank you for answering me with so much detail. The answer to my second question was especially good; I understand the situations for the Palestinians born in various areas now.
As for the first question, it’s funny, because the one person I have ever asked the question, “Well, where should they go, then?” to (before you) was an American Jewish woman who is a progressive Democrat, “anti-racist,” etc. (She is someone I know IRL.) She told me, somewhat tersely, that the Palestinians should go to Jordan. She said the Jordanians had offered to have them. She seemed too upset to explain further, so I dropped it.
Preston Werner
As for the future of Israel: Listen, anyone who has any semblance of leftism left in their body has been gravely worried about this place since at least May 2021.
There is a growing, I would even say majority view, in Israel that the two-state solution is long dead and we are waiting for the world to catch up. That means that the future is either some kind of single 'nation of all its citizens', deeper entrenched apartheid, or - worst case scenario - forced deportation and ethnic cleansing.
The problem is that the 'nation of all its citizens' thing is very unpopular with both Israeli Jews and Palestinians. It's hard to see a path forward that isn't very very bad, because you are right: This will not increase support for a single liberal democratic state. Stuff like this bolsters Hamas and the Israeli far-right, who seem to just want all out war to the end.
So in short - I see little to no reason for optimism, in the near or distance future. I'm sorry.
armpit licker feet smeller
Preston Werner
(Please boost)
Just a note here, because it is going around in WhatApp and Signal groups that I am in.
I think Israel oppresses the Palestinian people and violates their human rights on a daily basis. Outside of my job, a lot of my time is dedicated to trying to fight these things. In fact, I just spent this morning helping a Palestinian family with their olive harvest. So please don't take this as coming from some kind of right wing perspective -
This is a very good moment for all you leftists around the world who are watching the situation unfolding here to *read the fucking room*. I do not want to be lectured on the internet about why what Hamas is doing is justified, or actually not as bad as what Israel did in Gaza War X or whatever. This is not some hypothetical philosophical exercise, ok? I spent a large chunk of my day checking in with friends who were in affected areas. I am worried sick about an acquaintance who lives right next to Gaza who hasn't yet responded to my message.
Having a good ideology is awesome, but so is having a fucking heart.
Preston Werner
@useless_idiot
I want to correct this now that more information is available. Perhaps 'raid' is too weak of a word. There have been over 1500 Hamas militants killed in Israel. That is far more than "dozens" as I initially stated.
Preston Werner
@useless_idiot
Yes. Raid would be perhaps a better word. We aren't talking about a standing army marching into Israel. We are talking about some dozens of gunmen scattering about and causing as much damage as they can.
Useless Idiot 🇳🇱 🥀⌛
Ok, thanks for the context. Would it be fair to describe this as a raid and not an invasion?
For different reasons it’s hard for me to get a feeling for the scale of this.
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