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   Mikel Forcada EA5IYL (ea5iyl@mastodon.radio)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 00:31:01 JST Mikel Forcada EA5IYL

   Keep proprietary digital modes off ham radio!

   https://ea5iyl.blogspot.com/2023/08/keep-proprietary-digital-modes-off-ham.html

   • clacke likes this.
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     Alper (alper@mas.to)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 00:31:04 JST Alper

     in reply to

     @Ea5iyl I strongly agree with this. I am quite sad about the fact that vara has taken over email over hf scene since I have left. I understand the practicality but software freedom is what brought us many new exciting modes on radio. Soundcard modes were to save us from expensive and secretive hardware modems not to join them.

     clacke likes this.
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     Christian HB9HOX (hb9hox@mastodon.radio)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 00:31:13 JST Christian HB9HOX

     in reply to

     @Ea5iyl For me, #AmateurRadio is about experimentation and learning. #FreeOpenSourceSoftware and #FreeOpenHardware is key to this.

     And no, it is not free as in free beer, but free as in free speech.

     An alternative would be easy accessible documentation with easy to understand specifications. But I ofthen find it hard, if not impossible, to find any documentation. And if I do, I usually struggle to understand.

     clacke likes this.
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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 00:31:13 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Christian HB9HOX
     • Ossi OH8HUB
     @oh8hub @Ea5iyl @hb9hox If it's HAM radio, what is the "job" to "get done"?
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     Ossi OH8HUB (oh8hub@mastodon.radio)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 00:31:21 JST Ossi OH8HUB

     in reply to

     • Christian HB9HOX

     @hb9hox @Ea5iyl I'm advocate of open source also. But it is not simple. If you do it for your freetime then the burden of maintenance is a real chore. And you still need to have your day job. Alternative is to sell your product and work it full time to pay the bills.

     Innovation (closed source or not) is the key. Moving forward is key. Competition is good. If someone steps up with FOSS competitor for VARA: Good! But if not then we continue using VARA because it gets the job done.

   • Embed this notice
     Mikel Forcada EA5IYL (ea5iyl@mastodon.radio)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 00:31:23 JST Mikel Forcada EA5IYL

     in reply to

     • Christian HB9HOX
     • Ossi OH8HUB

     @oh8hub @hb9hox I understand your point of view. I spun off a company from the University: it sells services (not products) based on free/open-source software: an alternative business model (still going). Maintenance: free/open-source software can be in the hands of a community and often is. Open-source innovation has the potential for a larger uptake, community and business building. If you do not use closed-source software and licences, VARA is effectively an encrypted mode.

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 19:18:50 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Christian HB9HOX
     • Ossi OH8HUB
     @oh8hub @Ea5iyl @hb9hox I know what it means, but my belief was that HAMs were in it for and the amateur bands were licensed for the tinkering and learning, not the crude goal of using the radio waves to accomplish some utility.
   • Embed this notice
     Ossi OH8HUB (oh8hub@mastodon.radio)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 19:18:51 JST Ossi OH8HUB

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Christian HB9HOX

     @clacke @Ea5iyl @hb9hox It's a idiom for accomplishing something.

     https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/(someone%2fsomething)+gets+the+job+done

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     Mikel Forcada EA5IYL (ea5iyl@mastodon.radio)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2023 17:54:55 JST Mikel Forcada EA5IYL

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Christian HB9HOX
     • Ossi OH8HUB

     @oh8hub @clacke @hb9hox You did not mention the band for your 1000 km QSO, but I get the point. But my point was not about performance, but rather about transparency, openness and understanding, and how it relates to what one could call the ham spirit. There is no *understanding* here because the VARA developers (as ROS developers) have decided to hide their success behind a secret algorithm (which, by the way, has a bandwidth of 2 kHz [compare that to the few Hz taken by CW or PSK or FT8]).

     clacke likes this.
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     Ossi OH8HUB (oh8hub@mastodon.radio)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2023 17:54:56 JST Ossi OH8HUB

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Christian HB9HOX

     @Ea5iyl @clacke @hb9hox VARA HF accomplishes a successful digital two way communication between two amateur radio stations.

     I can send Winlink email from my portable station in Oulu to a station in Oslo using just 10W of power. That's 1000km QSO.

     The speed is adjust automatically to conditions. With good propagation I can see nice transfer speeds, but with bad propagation or interference it still can function, but with lower speeds.

     I've not yet found another tool with similar performance.

   • Embed this notice
     Mikel Forcada EA5IYL (ea5iyl@mastodon.radio)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2023 17:54:58 JST Mikel Forcada EA5IYL

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Christian HB9HOX
     • Ossi OH8HUB

     @oh8hub @clacke @hb9hox I know that idiom well. And my question was absolutely intentional, about the object or aim. What job? What do you accomplish?

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2023 18:29:10 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Christian HB9HOX
     • Ossi OH8HUB

     @oh8hub "Nobody is forced to use it" is always used as an argument for convenience over openness and interoperability and it's only mostly true at best.

     @Ea5iyl @hb9hox

   • Embed this notice
     Ossi OH8HUB (oh8hub@mastodon.radio)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2023 18:29:12 JST Ossi OH8HUB

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Christian HB9HOX

     @Ea5iyl @clacke @hb9hox I'd love to see volunteers taking the challenge and start implementing open source version or competing alternative to VARA.

     But while we're waiting, I'm happy to see the project continuously evolving and being used in real world.

     We are not entitled to push down a project if at the same time we do not ourselves step up and provide alternative. There's too much hate and negativity in the world already.

     Nobody is forced to use it. And many users area happy with it.

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2023 20:50:06 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • clacke
     @clacke locked down software development is antisocial behavior
     lainy and clacke like this.
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     Mikel Forcada EA5IYL (ea5iyl@mastodon.radio)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 09:32:13 JST Mikel Forcada EA5IYL

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Christian HB9HOX
     • Ossi OH8HUB

     @clacke @oh8hub @hb9hox My stance is even more radical. I'm in favour of *prohibiting* the use of digital modes which are undocumented and closed-source and therefore effectively *encrypt* ham radio traffic for anyone who is not using the closed hardware or software. Ham radio communications should always be in the clear.

     clacke likes this.
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     Ossi OH8HUB (oh8hub@mastodon.radio)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 09:32:16 JST Ossi OH8HUB

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Christian HB9HOX

     @Ea5iyl @clacke @hb9hox ITU Radio Regulations Edition of 2020 Vol I article 25.2A is probably what you're refering to:

     "Transmissions between amateur stations of different countries shall not be encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except for control signals exchanged between earth command stations and space stations in the amateur-satellite service."

     Here your argument seems to be that a modulation and/or encoding a message is equal to obscuring a meaning?

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Mikel Forcada EA5IYL (ea5iyl@mastodon.radio)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 21:29:58 JST Mikel Forcada EA5IYL

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Christian HB9HOX
     • Ossi OH8HUB

     @oh8hub @clacke @hb9hox When the encoding is performed using an undocumented and undisclosed method, yes.

     clacke likes this.
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     Benjamin SA0TAY (sa0tay@ansiktsburk.se)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2023 05:34:30 JST Benjamin SA0TAY

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Christian HB9HOX
     • Ossi OH8HUB

     @oh8hub @Ea5iyl @clacke @hb9hox We are absolutely entitled to criticise people for doing what we perceive to be bad things. That's literally what free speech is.

     Seriously, what even is that argument?

     clacke likes this.
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     EA7KRC Martin (ea7krc@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 12:07:42 JST EA7KRC Martin

     in reply to

     @Ea5iyl
     I've argued this point for years, as you point out it isn't amateur radio.
     This to me goes hand in hand with amateurs charging for software etc. Designs should as with s/w be open source. Otherwise your a business and shouldn't associate your callsign with it.

     clacke likes this.