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   :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2023 08:05:24 JST :blobcathug:
   scrum, nowadays often ridiculed, actually has good approaches in its basic ideas...
   
   Teams often have a poor distribution of responsibilities, like managers, devs or bosses who do not behave... I think it's good to give an independent person the authority to slap other people if they don't follow the jointly defined processes/protocols, especially if the persons are the higher ranking ones
   
   but the basic idea of scrum is very very often lived wrongly...
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2023 15:33:00 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @Jain scrum requires management tell people what they want and stop bothering them long enough to do it
     
     management can't keep their fingers off of shit for a week to let it work
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2023 15:34:06 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • ledocool
     @ledocool431 @Jain IIRC from when i took the lectures from one of the original scrum guys
     
     - the client shows up in the pre-sprint to say these are the things i want done and a relative level of importance for each thing
     - the scrum master says 🆗 is this what you want and reminds them they won't be hearing from them again for 1-4 weeks (iteration times vary)
     - client is then locked out of the process until the sprint is over
     - scrum masters job is mostly to do daily stand-ups (checking in with the work group) and the rest of the time to resolve out-of-band blockages
     
     the work group is really never supposed to be bothered by management or paperwork at all and the requirements are supposed to be moderately stabilized so they can actually write the code before the requirements change.
     
     most companies want the outcome of that (higher productivity) but are unwilling to pay for it (shutting up for 1-4 weeks at a time)
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2023 15:34:07 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • ledocool
     @ledocool431 @Jain that's because you have bad managers that need to feel busy by bothering people.
     
     in actual scrum, management is supposed to be locked out of the room except on backlog day.
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     ledocool (ledocool431@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2023 15:34:08 JST ledocool

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn
     @Jain
     Imo scrum encorages management intrusion and hotswappable chanhe of plans. Otherwise its waterfall or whatever else.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2023 15:34:31 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • ledocool
     @Jain @ledocool431 i could speculate its because we live in a society that is so steeped in feudalism and slave/serf management culture that nobody can actually handle not being micromanaged for a day and especially the pedagogs don't have the ability to stop whipping the underlings.
     
     managing free people is a wholly different affair, mostly involving giving them general boundaries and going hands off. a lot lot lot of people are so deeply entrenched out of being able to do this.
     
     i know i personally like to handle them in this way (the free person way, of just giving expectations and waiting to hear back of issues or competion) and a lot of people i treat that way ultimately fail because they aren't capable or desiring to self-manage.
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     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2023 15:35:22 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • ledocool
     @icedquinn @ledocool431 ha, quinn knows what i meant