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   Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 04:24:17 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
   - Vast majority of embedded devices are using Linux! Yay!
   - They're still horribly proprietary, even without GPL-violations
   - Linux is terribly unfit to anything with real-time requirements, but pretty sure corporate would still ship it
   • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: and NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi: like this.
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     NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi: (neonpurplestar@outerheaven.club)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 04:40:24 JST NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:

     in reply to
     @lanodan i don't think this is going to change any time soon, the entire industry is just churn and burn
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 04:42:14 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:
     @NeonPurpleStar And I think that's just industries for you, at least until it goes regulated which takes absolute ages.
     NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi: likes this.
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     NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi: (neonpurplestar@outerheaven.club)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 04:46:32 JST NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:

     in reply to
     @lanodan
     i mean the unfortunate situation is that phones are being made a hollow shell that has no functionality unless connected to a cloud account
     
     phone sales have began dropping significantly, so this "device" industry is turning entirely into a "service" industry
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 04:51:21 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:
     @NeonPurpleStar Phones aren't the most worrying one for me, like them hanging for a second or more can be infuriating in some situations (I know, it happened to me, which is why I which RTOS/L4/… would be used on phones again) but that's about it.
     
     I know for a fact that there's vehicles running linux…
     NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 07:39:10 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:
     • LisPi
     @lispi314 @NeonPurpleStar Yeah AFAIK OKL4 and SeL4 are real-time and L4/Fiasco is used as basis for DROPS which has real-time + L4Linux.
   • Embed this notice
     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 07:39:11 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:

     @lanodan @NeonPurpleStar L4 has real-time variants?

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 08:24:30 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • LisPi
     • zardoz.el
     @lispi314 @zardoz03
     Yeah, because they're pretty different things:
     - PREEMPT_RT is roughly a scheduler setting and barely has much do with real-time and so ought to be renamed.
     - On the other hand an actual real-time OS would have either timebound calls (say via timeouts) or non-blocking calls. This means you programs simply *cannot* be frozen due to I/Os or the network being suddenly slow.
   • Embed this notice
     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 08:24:31 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • zardoz.el

     @zardoz03 Yeah, multi-user is not typically the architecture one would use.

     The funny part is that gamers/gentoo would suffer from it (https://ubuntu.com/blog/what-is-real-time-linux-i that part in misconceptions) unless their workload is one of the specific few that benefits from it, lol.

     They'd be better off just tuning process priority/niceness & IO niceness as needed.

     Which makes me wonder if the same solution would also suffice for @lanodan's phone issues (and of course that's not available from Android :/ )

   • Embed this notice
     zardoz.el (zardoz03@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 08:24:33 JST zardoz.el

     in reply to

     • LisPi

     @lispi314 @lanodan i think there are different tick schedulers and things but primarily heard it in context of gamers^gentoo; but more abstractly i do not know if RT and MultiUser are a good fit, given how linux was made to be a desktop unixen

   • Embed this notice
     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 08:24:34 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     @lanodan Isn't there some attempt to make it suitable for some real-time scenarios?

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 08:30:37 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • LisPi
     • zardoz.el
     @lispi314 @zardoz03 See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTOS for more details.
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 08:41:47 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • LisPi
     • zardoz.el

     @lispi314 @zardoz03 And there’s things that I guess shouldn’t be syscalls anymore like stat(2) or even worse getdents(2) (Who remembers their file picker getting hard-stuck for a while when loading /usr/bin on an HDD) that you would probably answer asynchronously in an RTOS.

   • Embed this notice
     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 08:41:49 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • zardoz.el

     @lanodan @zardoz03 Makes sense to me. It does seem like most Linux syscalls, even the supposedly non-blocking ones, are broken as far as that goes.

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 08:53:02 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • LisPi
     • zardoz.el

     @lispi314 @zardoz03 Yeah I think for the /usr/bin case caching and filesystems got better.

     These days the only part where I still get directory listing hang is when using a network mount and going through directories that weren’t cached yet (I should maybe add something like a poststart script to netmount to warm some of those directories).

   • Embed this notice
     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 08:53:03 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • zardoz.el

     @lanodan @zardoz03 There's no remembering needed, this is still my day to day life.

     Admittedly more so for directories of 100k+ files from data dumps than /usr/bin (which is small-enough to have little latency) but same difference.

     Asynchronous fill and explicit notification of failure or completion would be nice.