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   Ciggy Bringer of Smoke (ciggysmokebringer@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Sep-2023 06:11:15 JST Ciggy Bringer of Smoke

   • Håkan Geijer

   @hakan_geijer Anti-war in what way, and with what audience in mind? What's the combo of rhetoric that would pick your lock?

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     William Gillis 🏴 (rechelon@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Sep-2023 06:13:58 JST William Gillis 🏴

     • Håkan Geijer

     @hakan_geijer

     Yeah, I"ve not been impressed with the big texts and big names, but I think it's a position that we should take seriously DESPITE the prominent advocates, for basic anarchist ethics/strategic reasons. I also think it's a position that will become more and more conventional within the scene as time drags on and nasty consequences of Ukraine being a fucking nationstate continue to rack up.

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     William Gillis 🏴 (rechelon@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Sep-2023 06:18:00 JST William Gillis 🏴

     • Håkan Geijer

     @hakan_geijer

     Yeah, I saw people in ostensibly "anarchist" (albeit seemingly just online) circles celebrating OBVIOUS war crimes like repeatedly bombing a surrendering soldier. And "the nazis aren't a big deal" shit is completely toxic. Also there's long been backchannel whispers of some completely fucked shit re anarchist nationalism and alliances re the Donbas before the war started.

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     Passenger (passenger@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Sep-2023 06:19:54 JST Passenger

     • Håkan Geijer

     @hakan_geijer

     I've not seen anything written up as long-form, but I've seen a few lines here and there of "our officers are sending men to die senselessly against the Russian guns because the Americans want the great offensive to continue, and Kyiv wants the Americans' support more than they want us to survive."

     If I find anything written up, I'll send it your way.

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     FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Sep-2023 06:22:39 JST FinalOverdrive

     • Håkan Geijer
     • William Gillis 🏴

     @hakan_geijer @rechelon It seems to be turning into a war between two bad guys...just like what the Euromaidan thing was. A conflict between Russian nationalists and Ukrainian nationalists.

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     Ciggy Bringer of Smoke (ciggysmokebringer@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Sep-2023 06:31:54 JST Ciggy Bringer of Smoke

     • Håkan Geijer

     @hakan_geijer I don't unfortunately - it seems pretty cut and dried that at a high level Russia is the aggressor invading for its own internal reckoning and a general principle of a Nation State engaging in self defense holds here so it's kind of hard to argue that there was a peaceable way out that simply wasn't taken...so there really isn't a contrarian angle folks are willing to pick up and put their name to.

     Like Tankies et al go all sorts of outlandish places with that stuff in notional support of Russia.

     However, my take since the start has been, American Liberals in particular are going outlandish places with their notional support of Ukraine that have reflected domestic engagement and disposition with things like 'Self defense means anything goes' and 'You don't get to choose who your defenders are, so what if they've got SS bolts tattooed on their eyelids, this is war!' and thirstily hoping Putin receives a comeuppance for all the chicanery he's pulled off over the decades, and it's like...

     War brings out the worst in people, maybe especially the spectators that don't really have a dog in it, but use it as a divining tool as if they do.

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     transform-social (transform@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Sep-2023 14:09:53 JST transform-social

     • Håkan Geijer

     @hakan_geijer
     short statement: https://wri-irg.org/en/story/2022/wri-statement-war-ukraine
     for longer texts I'm only aware of those of a german language anti-militarist anarchist newspaper. Maybe you can them trough a translator:
     https://www.graswurzel.net/gwr/2022/03/dimensionen-des-krieges/
     https://www.graswurzel.net/gwr/2022/03/sabotiert-diesen-krieg/
     https://www.graswurzel.net/gwr/2022/04/putins-angriff-auf-die-ukraine-was-tun/
     https://www.graswurzel.net/gwr/2022/10/eine-friedensagenda-fuer-die-ukraine-und-die-welt/

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     Niedliche Nacktschnecke (niedlichenacktschnecke@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Sep-2023 14:24:16 JST Niedliche Nacktschnecke

     • Håkan Geijer

     @hakan_geijer i trust you read the things by assembly? Libcom has some translations

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     Niedliche Nacktschnecke (niedlichenacktschnecke@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Sep-2023 16:03:27 JST Niedliche Nacktschnecke

     • Håkan Geijer

     @hakan_geijer i think this recent text by assembly is a good starting point https://libcom.org/article/refusals-fight-both-sides-front-entering-second-autumn-war and the links from there

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     no more strolls for empresses (renemeadowbloom@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 07:21:38 JST no more strolls for empresses

     • Håkan Geijer
     • The Final Straw Radio
     • From Embers

     @hakan_geijer
     Erh, they're not anti-war like in a "don't fight back" sense, but maybe a half year ago(?) there was some good flurry of publications about it... @fromembers and/or @thefinalstrawradio had a good interview or two too and ' would guess they might also have those referrals
     There's been others too.