Trying to not ask in bad faith here, but are there any reasonable anarchist anti-war (RU/UA conflict) texts out there? I don't think I've seen any, and I've become outright dismissive of anyone with that position, but I'm concerned my position has become isolated from critique, so I'm trying to read things I normally wouldn't.
@rechelon Yeah sure. I mean, at least a lot of the "not pro-war but tactically like this is the least bad option kinda" crowd seem to acknowledge the evils of the US/EU wanting to get the wheat and do some disaster capitalism or the nazi/nationalist shit. But also plenty have gone there and come back like "Azov Battalion isn't that bad, they just want what we want" like mate what the fuck happened to your principles. So not like people who aren't outright anti-war aren't weirdo wingnuts too
Yeah, I"ve not been impressed with the big texts and big names, but I think it's a position that we should take seriously DESPITE the prominent advocates, for basic anarchist ethics/strategic reasons. I also think it's a position that will become more and more conventional within the scene as time drags on and nasty consequences of Ukraine being a fucking nationstate continue to rack up.
Yeah, I saw people in ostensibly "anarchist" (albeit seemingly just online) circles celebrating OBVIOUS war crimes like repeatedly bombing a surrendering soldier. And "the nazis aren't a big deal" shit is completely toxic. Also there's long been backchannel whispers of some completely fucked shit re anarchist nationalism and alliances re the Donbas before the war started.
@rechelon Anarchists calling them orcs and celebrating their deaths has been possibly one of the worst parts of all this. Like ok a lot are conscripted, unarmed, surrendering, or alone hiding in trenches. And then you gunned them down or bombed them. Just like purely enjoying the power to take life for its own sake in exactly the way we rail against. Just horrible shit
I've not seen anything written up as long-form, but I've seen a few lines here and there of "our officers are sending men to die senselessly against the Russian guns because the Americans want the great offensive to continue, and Kyiv wants the Americans' support more than they want us to survive."
If I find anything written up, I'll send it your way.
@hakan_geijer@rechelon It seems to be turning into a war between two bad guys...just like what the Euromaidan thing was. A conflict between Russian nationalists and Ukrainian nationalists.
@hakan_geijer I don't unfortunately - it seems pretty cut and dried that at a high level Russia is the aggressor invading for its own internal reckoning and a general principle of a Nation State engaging in self defense holds here so it's kind of hard to argue that there was a peaceable way out that simply wasn't taken...so there really isn't a contrarian angle folks are willing to pick up and put their name to.
Like Tankies et al go all sorts of outlandish places with that stuff in notional support of Russia.
However, my take since the start has been, American Liberals in particular are going outlandish places with their notional support of Ukraine that have reflected domestic engagement and disposition with things like 'Self defense means anything goes' and 'You don't get to choose who your defenders are, so what if they've got SS bolts tattooed on their eyelids, this is war!' and thirstily hoping Putin receives a comeuppance for all the chicanery he's pulled off over the decades, and it's like...
War brings out the worst in people, maybe especially the spectators that don't really have a dog in it, but use it as a divining tool as if they do.
@niedlichenacktschnecke Can you link me? I honestly gave up shortly after the outbreak of the war (or like invasion or however we're defining it) because it seemed like every anti war position thought RU soldiers wouldn't harm civilians or that their deaths were ok if that mean anarchists could maintain ideological purity. So yeah, haven't been following much for a while in that regard tbh
@hakan_geijer Erh, they're not anti-war like in a "don't fight back" sense, but maybe a half year ago(?) there was some good flurry of publications about it... @fromembers and/or @thefinalstrawradio had a good interview or two too and ' would guess they might also have those referrals There's been others too.