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  1. Embed this notice
    novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:21:41 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
    • FinalOverdrive

    @FinalOverdrive you were asking how gender accelerationists got on my shit list, and I'm in the mood to angry rant right now, so I figured I'd finally get back to that question LOL.

    Basically it's because I had two gender accelerationists get all in my mentions to explain to me that gender doesn't make any sense without rooting it in so-called material conditions, that it has to be based in biology and "relationship to the means of reproduction," and that the concept of gender (and womanhood especially) were "evolutionarily developed in prehistory" (so just evolutionary psychology mumbo jumbo) as a way to describe a certain relationship to reproduction and reproductive labor and concomitantly to control women and enforce that reproductive labor on them, and that *since* it originated as this concept it can't *possibly* have grown far beyond it to be this complex sociocultural identity! No, we have to continue always defining it in terms of what they think — in their evolutionary psychology Just So stories — it originally developed to describe. And ofc therefore gender is oppressive and bioessentialist inherently, and what we need to do is abolish gender entirely. Worse, their plan for that is to produce "so many xenogenders that it becomes obvious to everyone that gender is absolutely meaningless and we should just get rid of it", just make so many genders that you essentially have gender fucking monetary inflation to the point where our gender is worth nothing.

    Obviously I'm going to have a fucking problem with that, because that account of gender is the exact same bullshit one that Jordan Peterson and a million other conservatives give, just with a little bit of Marxist lingo sprinkled in. Sure they draw the "opposite" conclusions — they take it to mean that gender is bad instead of good — but it's still bio essentialist and it's still misgendering by extra steps and it's still trying to erase my identity. Oh, they claim that they don't want to erase or take away anyone's identity — they just want to create a world where that identity is obsolete, they say! But that's like saying "I don't want to kill transgender people I just want to make a world where there aren't any more transgender people." You're still trying to eliminate a cultural identity through some means, and I guarantee you that the only way you're going to completely eliminate any identity is through force and repression, because otherwise someone's always going to continue identifying with it. You can't kill an idea, ideas are fucking bulletproof bitches.

    Not only that, but it demonstrates the exact same faux materialist pseudo intellectual belief that conservatives have that if something is a sociocultural construct or identity then it doesn't mean anything and doesn't make sense, that for something to make sense it has to be based in some biological fact or material reality. Their assumption is that xenogenders are inherently meaningless and pointless, and that's why they all identify with them and produce more of them, because they want to accelerate the production of genders and therefore accelerate people realizing that gender is "meaningless" and discarding it, and obviously that's really fucking mean and invalidating to my friends who genuinely identify with xenogenders.

    And when I tried explaining to them that they were still operating on conservative bio-essentialist TERF logic, and that what they were saying was very harmful to me as a binary trans person and to many non-binary people, they kept just reiterating that "it's objectively true tho" and saying that "just because conservatives and TERFs also believe it doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to discuss it and believe it too."

    And before you try to say that it's just those two gender accelerationists I started reading the gender accelerationist Manifesto and it's the same fucking God damn bullshit.

    In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:21:41 JST from kolektiva.social permalink
    • Embed this notice
      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:22:36 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
      in reply to
      • FinalOverdrive

      @FinalOverdrive finally I had enough trying to talk to trans-exclusionary-feminist-Jordan-Peterson-by-way-of-Marx and told them to go stick their Marxism up there material conditions

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:22:36 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:26:00 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
      in reply to
      • FinalOverdrive

      @FinalOverdrive g/acc can suck my massive futa cock

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:26:00 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:29:57 JST FinalOverdrive FinalOverdrive
      in reply to

      @anarchopunk_girl I see. I have noticed it somewhat. The weird thing is I otherwise agree with them on a lot of things, except that I think they retain the reductive view of "gender-as-oppression", when gender has multiple definitions to capture multiple forms of gender, much of which is separable from "gender-as-oppression" and "gender-as-sex/gender-roles". My criticism is that it doesn't accelerate far enough; the key is to take command of gender, make it our own, not destroy it. Keep mind fucking to drive straights uncomfortable.

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:29:57 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:32:12 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
      in reply to
      • FinalOverdrive

      @FinalOverdrive yeah gender is a lot of things and can be defined a lot of different ways but I think it's really important to keep in mind that it can be an extremely empowering and meaningful socio-cultural identity for both straight people and especially queer people. And pretending it's just oppression or gender roles or biology is very harmful. Also I agree that we should keep producing as many strange and new and interesting genders as there are people who want to identify them and keep playing with gender and making it our own and stuff! I just don't think that doing that makes those social identities meaningless or that it will necessarily destroy the concept of gender or anything. So while I agree with some of the conclusions of the gender accelerationists I think they're logic is incredibly harmful and bad and I think they also think a lot of harmful and bad things on the side

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:32:12 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:36:29 JST FinalOverdrive FinalOverdrive
      in reply to

      @anarchopunk_girl I don't think biology is harmful here. Their central blindness is the blindness to "gender/sex as meaningful socio-cultural identity". I'd even include biological. It's sort of how I see being autistic: I am meaningfully, on a biological level, different from others. I am on some level inhuman. And that's fine, that's great. Nothing gives me greater pleasure than arousing that cocktail of fear, disgust, fascination, infatuation, with them falling all around me struggling to understand the unfathomable, and make sense of a person who doesn't behave in a human manner.

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:36:29 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:37:19 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
      in reply to
      • FinalOverdrive

      @FinalOverdrive acknowledging the biological isn't necessarily harmful but reducing everything to it is

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:37:19 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:49:24 JST FinalOverdrive FinalOverdrive
      in reply to

      @anarchopunk_girl Rest assured. I don't speak in terms of "biological males" or "biological females". I, at most, speak in terms of specific reproductive organs.

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:49:24 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:50:43 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
      in reply to
      • FinalOverdrive

      @FinalOverdrive I think the consistent failures of conversion therapy both institutional and social and the amount of trans and gay and otherwise queer people that remain so even while closeted for decades makes me dubious of the idea that such things are actually volitionally changeable — although they may change naturally over time — and I think it's much simpler and more straightforward to assume that for instance the "straight" men who decide femboys are feminine enough we're always bisexual to some degree because in general I think most people are bisexual and just suppressing it thanks to society. Also it seems like from how you phrase that comment that you are confusing the act of being gay or trans with actually being gay or trans which is more about desire. Assuming that the act of having gay sex or being visibly and openly trans and transitioning is what makes you gay or trans is the same failure of basic object permanence that conservatives have that leads them to assume that you even *can* eliminate queer people by just making it illegal to express or enact anything queer.

      I think it's a fundamental fallacy and something we should push back against, because yes, even if you could eliminate queer people by outlawing it we shouldn't, but I think it's incredibly important to realize that queer people *wouldn't* be eliminated by that, that we would continue to exist and would just suffer the entire time.

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:50:43 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:50:44 JST FinalOverdrive FinalOverdrive
      in reply to

      @anarchopunk_girl Further, these identities can be altered and changed...(individual cases varied). Sexual orientation can change and be changed...by oneself and by society. How else do we explain these "straight" men deciding "femboys are female enough" after being frustrated with women? It's not the best motivation on their part, granted, but it does demonstrate that heterosexuality is not invioable and un-alterable. Neither is gender identity. Someone can be turned queer. Someone can be turned trans. Or choose to become so. Of course the straights can and will try, to varying degrees of success, to make people cis and het by force instead of by choice, but that's what freedom means. Fighting that.

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:50:44 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:53:32 JST FinalOverdrive FinalOverdrive
      in reply to

      @anarchopunk_girl I just don't think we can rule out choice in either even does happen, and that there is a connection between expression and desire.

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:53:32 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:54:12 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
      in reply to
      • FinalOverdrive

      @FinalOverdrive maybe some people can choose to be trans or gay but I don't think it's all of us or even the majority (yet) is what I'm saying, and acknowledging those of us who can't choose is important I feel like

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:54:12 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:55:10 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
      in reply to
      • FinalOverdrive

      @FinalOverdrive it's like acknowledging the difference between people who have straight passing privilege and those who don't. Bisexual people can more easily choose to blend into straight Society then people who are strictly homosexual because the homosexual people could act straight but they won't ever be able to be happy that way

      In conversation Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 23:55:10 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 00:56:23 JST FinalOverdrive FinalOverdrive
      in reply to

      @anarchopunk_girl What im more interested in doing is upsetting the notion that being cisgender and/or heterosexual is somehow natural

      In conversation Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 00:56:23 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 01:05:33 JST FinalOverdrive FinalOverdrive
      in reply to

      @anarchopunk_girl I don't know how much straight passing privilege that bisexual people really ahve either.

      In conversation Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 01:05:33 JST permalink

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