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   Luigi de Guzman (ouij@tambayan.us)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 02:38:02 JST Luigi de Guzman

   • FediTips has moved!
   • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

   @youronlyone @feditips I’ve groused about this recently and the response I’ve gotten back is “change to a larger instance then.” So if that’s the solution, the largest instance will always win. Yay?

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 02:37:51 JST FediTips has moved!

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     @ouij @youronlyone

     If all someone cares about is convenience, why not just stay on Twitter? Why come to a decentralised network and demand that it centralise? It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and complaining they don't serve meat.

     The solution isn't "choose a larger instance", the solution is to discover people you follow through many different methods: https://fedi.tips/how-do-i-find-accounts-to-follow-on-mastodon-and-the-fediverse-how-do-i-find-my-friends/

     And for admins, the solution is to use hashtag/instance relays: https://fedi.tips/using-relays-to-quickly-expand-a-servers-view-of-the-fediverse/

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 02:44:57 JST FediTips has moved!

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     @ouij @youronlyone

     The problems on Twitter, Facebook etc are a direct result of their structure, they inevitably "enshittify" because they are owned by a single company that will keep pushing to squeeze more and more revenue from a saturated market. They are incentivised to exploit their users in ever worse ways.

     Yes this place is structurally less convenient, but it's the structure that keeps it from turning to crap like Twitter.

     People have to choose their priorities.

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 02:56:54 JST FediTips has moved!

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     @ouij @youronlyone

     "But it’s not work most casual users will probably want to put in."

     The methods I listed in the link above are not *that* difficult. They're the kind of thing people did online before Facebook etc existed.

     I know it can take getting used to different ways of doing things, but once you're over that barrier it's pretty simple.

     Even simple things that people have done for decades can seem difficult if you're not used to them:

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHNEzndgiFI

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     Luigi de Guzman (ouij@tambayan.us)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 02:57:23 JST Luigi de Guzman

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     • FediTips has moved!
     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     @feditips @youronlyone again, I’m here incidentally. The network exists and I figured I’d give it a shot. That is usually how these sorts of networks grow.

     I am currently struggling to find things to follow. I appreciate the hard work you’ve been putting in to make that easier. But it’s not work most casual users will probably want to put in. And that’s going to affect who gets on and stays on the network.

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     Luigi de Guzman (ouij@tambayan.us)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 06:10:09 JST Luigi de Guzman

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     @feditips @youronlyone also there’s an enormous tension between the user base’s self-image (an infinitely inclusive decentralized space) and the reaction a lot of honestly perplexed new users face (if you don’t like it/don’t get it GTFO).

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 06:33:25 JST FediTips has moved!

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
     • James Endicott

     @o76923 @youronlyone @ouij

     The reason Twitter is run by a bad person is precisely because of its simpler structure.

     Putting an entire social network onto one instance means it can be very easily sold to anyone with money.

     The same thing that makes it convenient is the same thing that makes it vulnerable to being taken over by Musk etc.

     It's much harder for anyone to buy this place, because it's spread out on thousands of independently owned instances. The complicated structure protects us.

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     James Endicott (o76923@kitty.social)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 06:33:28 JST James Endicott

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     @feditips@mstdn.social @ouij@tambayan.us @youronlyone@c.im
     
     Because Twitter is run by a bad person who is using the platform to do bad things. It's perfectly reasonable to want both convenience and not support a transphobic white supremacist.

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 22:42:24 JST FediTips has moved!

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
     • James Endicott

     @o76923 @youronlyone

     I'm not sure if "bullying" is an appropriate way to describe what I wrote?

     I was responding to the section "What I can see is pretty limited, and seeing anything else is difficult by design. Normies do not care about how hard it is for the system to be taken over."

     With this phrase, @ouij seemed to be asking for centralisation.

     The point I am making is that the ability for a system to be taken over is exactly what protects this place from people like Musk.

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     James Endicott (o76923@kitty.social)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 22:42:25 JST James Endicott

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     @feditips@mstdn.social @youronlyone@c.im @ouij@tambayan.us
     
     Literally yesterday you were advocating for a feature that would make discovery easier/UX simpler for following others. On a technical level, it would require implementing changes that reduce incentives for centralization.
     
     You demonstrably know that convenience isn't the same as centralization. I have no idea why you are bullying @ouij@tambayan.us for asking that the Fediverse be more convenient to use.

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 22:44:45 JST FediTips has moved!

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
     • James Endicott

     @o76923 @youronlyone @ouij

     Non-techy people may think they don't care about how hard it is for a place to be taken over.

     But they do care really, because we've seen the vast number of people unhappy with the behaviour of centralised social networks.

     The technical side of things and the effects of the technology are two sides of the same coin. You cannot have a centralised network that is safe from people like Musk.

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 23:20:32 JST FediTips has moved!

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
     • James Endicott

     @ouij @youronlyone @o76923

     “well good riddance we don’t need them.”

     That is the opposite of what I do.

     I spend my spare time trying to help new people. I run this account, my other accounts and websites to help non-technical people get onto here.

     "non-technical users do not care about the structure of a network. They care about the messages they can send and receive"

     If what you say is true, why would they leave Twitter? I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm genuinely asking.

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     Luigi de Guzman (ouij@tambayan.us)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 23:20:58 JST Luigi de Guzman

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     • FediTips has moved!
     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
     • James Endicott

     @youronlyone @o76923 @feditips the vibe I get from a lot of advocates then shifts to “well good riddance we don’t need them.”

     The small size and insularity of this user base relative to the larger non-technical population makes that kind of hostility more likely.

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     Luigi de Guzman (ouij@tambayan.us)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 23:20:59 JST Luigi de Guzman

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     • FediTips has moved!
     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
     • James Endicott

     @youronlyone @o76923 @feditips non-technical users do not care about the structure of a network. They care about the messages they can send and receive on it. And if those users have a hard time finding the things they want, they will not wait around to learn the intricacies of the network. They will just go idle or leave.

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     Luigi de Guzman (ouij@tambayan.us)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 23:21:16 JST Luigi de Guzman

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     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
     • James Endicott

     @youronlyone @o76923 @feditips I wasn’t asking for centralization.

     I observed that I have certain frustrations with the platform, and the advice I keep getting from other users boils down to “your instance is too small, join a bigger one.”

     If that’s what solves my frustrations, then the biggest instance always wins.

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     Luigi de Guzman (ouij@tambayan.us)'s status on Friday, 04-Aug-2023 23:23:24 JST Luigi de Guzman

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     • FediTips has moved!
     • Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
     • James Endicott

     @youronlyone @o76923 @feditips so if the problem is “I have a hard time finding anything worth reading,” in a lot of cases the replies I get start sounding like “yeah and that’s a FEATURE.” I mean sure, maybe that keeps bad guys from taking over the network. But a poison pill isn’t much use if what you’re looking for is an apple to snack on.