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    Chairman Meh (chairman_meh@kolektiva.social)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 01:08:26 JST Chairman Meh Chairman Meh

    Sometimes I don't think we make enough hay over how many of the 'militant atheists' of yesteryear became militant islamaphobes or militant antisemites without too much prodding. Some held true to loudly espousing how much christianity sucked, but even then their statements were cherry-picked to serve supremacist interests. The rest, however, followed the grifting money trail laid down before them and became tools of the right (or at least showed themselves to be problematic as all get out).

    Funny how absolutists seem to flock to fascist or authoritarian thinking, isn't it.

    In conversation Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 01:08:26 JST from kolektiva.social permalink
    • Embed this notice
      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 01:08:26 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
      in reply to

      @chairman_meh I think you can criticize religion staunchly without turning into a fascist or an authoritarian, but it has to be from a standpoint of not being overly occupied with whether the people around you believe "True Things" if it doesn't affect you, but rather being just caring about actual harm, and so thinking about the actual problems of those philosophies and whether they actually cause harm to their practitioners and the people around them. That way it's more like criticizing something like Marxism or Hegelianism or Kantianism or whatever. A lot of militant atheists will say all they care about it is harm but then take this really weird absolutist reified view that any belief they consider untrue (or even just poorly evidenced) is inherently harmful, when that's not really true and you'd have to prove the harm of a belief on a case by case basis, which proves that what they care about isn't actually harm but just making sure everyone around them "True" beliefs. They also seem constitutionally incapable of telling the difference between people who have a personal spirituality or religious outlook on life for themselves because it helps them understand and structure their own experiences and organized religions which is really frustrating and makes me sad.

      I think the other big thing is that basically all of those militant atheists didn't actually do anything to understand and deconstruct the assumptions that had been built into the very core of how they think by their white supremacist Christian upbringing and culture. Instead, they thought that their entire job was done once they stopped believing in the "supernatural" stuff, and went on being a basically white supremacist Christians without (at least, explicitly) the "god" part, ironically becoming all the more impervious to actual change and self-improvement because they thought they'd already done all the work and become the most rational free thinking person imaginable, when they actually were still subjugated to pretty much all the same ideas. That's why I'd much rather make common cause with liberation theology Christians and Quakers and Jewish people then I would with militant atheists — despite being very atheist myself — because a lot of those people have actually done the legwork of undermining and deconstructing all of the other horrible assumptions, they just still happen to be religious. I hope that makes sense.

      In conversation Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 01:08:26 JST permalink
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      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 01:13:05 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
      in reply to

      @chairman_meh also like to clarify here I generally don't think criticizing religion as a whole is going to end well for anyone because religion is such a wide and diverse thing what I meant by "criticizing religion" is criticizing specific religions. Also to be honest I'd much rather listen to criticisms of religions from people who either are or were members of those religions, not by third parties like militant atheists who think all religions are basically just Christianity with funny names

      In conversation Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 01:13:05 JST permalink
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      novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:20:45 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

      @chairman_meh I think I disagree that justifications for non belief are definitionally nonsensical of whatever, and I think having a discussion about the relative justification/coherency/harm of any belief system doesn't necessarily have to be pointless (I believe it can help to discuss ideologies and philosophies and I don't see why religions should get an exception here) but yeah most of the time it's just exhausting and pointless. The only time I bring up why I'm not a theist or a christian is when someone comes after me with particular arguments and I have to fend those arguments off lol. I don't bring it up on my own. Why bother?

      In conversation Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:20:45 JST permalink

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