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   Børge (forteller@tutoteket.no)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:12 JST Børge

   in reply to

   • Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

   @cassidy Thank you! I totally agree, and have wanted to talk about this for a while myself. Long before this most recent controversy. We need to get over this mentality of total purity when it comes to gathering data that can make the products we need in order to make a better world better, so that more people will want to use them. If the surveillance capitalist systems are the only ones most people will use, what do we gain by being "perfect"?

   • Embed this notice
     Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh: (cassidy@mastodon.blaede.family)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:14 JST Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

     in reply to

     At this point, everyone (including me!) has lost the plot. Because that’s what happens in these outrage arguments with someone who’s either arguing against a premise not based in reality, fundamentally misunderstanding what they’re arguing against, or arguing in bad faith.

     I’ll leave it there for now. It’s an imperfect analogy (of course!), but captures how this entire discussion has felt—and why it’s exhausting.

     If you have no idea what I’m talking about, carry on w/your blissful ignorance. 😝

   • Embed this notice
     Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh: (cassidy@mastodon.blaede.family)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:16 JST Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

     in reply to

     “What I demand is that every single person who enters the library actively be stopped and asked whether or not they want to be included in the tally count of people who stop by the 3D printer. Even better, only those who visit the front desk to specifically request they be included in the count should be counted!”

     Do you see how that sort of kind of defeats the entire point and makes the data useless?

     “You just want as much private, personal information as possible!”

     Sir, it’s a tally count…

   • Embed this notice
     Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh: (cassidy@mastodon.blaede.family)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:18 JST Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

     in reply to

     Okay, we will make sure this plan is very publicly available, we’ll even share PDFs of the paper the volunteer will be recording their count on so you can see it literally only has a spot for tallies and no other information. And at the end of every day we will post the papers publicly on the bulletin board at the front of the library so everyone can see exactly what we counted, I guess?

     “How can we be SURE it’s ACTUALLY the paper they are using?? For all I know they are swapping it out on us!”

   • Embed this notice
     Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh: (cassidy@mastodon.blaede.family)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:20 JST Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

     in reply to

     “There are sensitive things in a library! What if I am researching a sensitive topic and whoever is watching me puts all that together because they are writing down literally everything I am doing inside the library, now? I thought it was a safe space, this is dangerous and ripe for abuse!”

     Oh, they would just be counting the number of people who stop by the printers. Nothing else.

     “That’s how it STARTS, but next thing you know, they’re selling my profile to their evil donors!!”

   • Embed this notice
     Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh: (cassidy@mastodon.blaede.family)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:22 JST Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

     in reply to

     “You can’t compare the library to the market, people come to the library precisely because they don’t want to be surveilled! By having a volunteer with a tally counter by the 3D printers, you are opening an unclosable door through which pure evil surveillance will march right in. That’s illegal! What about my rights? I don’t want my personal, private data about everything I am doing in the library shared with who knows who! Sure, they SAY the volunteer isn’t evil, but how can I even trust them?”

   • Embed this notice
     Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh: (cassidy@mastodon.blaede.family)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:24 JST Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

     in reply to

     (By the way, only the immediately-previous post and later posts in this thread are not entirely true for the sake of the analogy; I don’t know if they have someone using a tally counter to see how interesting the 3D printers are! But the library is cool and is absolutely my favorite place to hang out.)

   • Embed this notice
     Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh: (cassidy@mastodon.blaede.family)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:26 JST Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

     in reply to

     The library wants to see if the 3D printers are a worthwhile investment—not just if they are used (they could obviously already count the number of prints per week), but if having them draws people into the library or even just sparks curiosity of passersby. Someone proposed the library could have a volunteer with a tally counter by the 3D printers to count how many people stop by to look at them, and that would help inform the library.

     Has the library stooped to the same level as the market?

   • Embed this notice
     Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh: (cassidy@mastodon.blaede.family)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:28 JST Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

     in reply to

     I greatly prefer to hang out in the latter space. It just has such a better vibe, but I also feel like I, as the patron, am actually respected rather than being manipulated into consumerism.

     It’s run by folks in the community. There is an elected board to make decisions that affect the patrons. It’s great! I’m even considering volunteering to get involved in doing my part to help make it even better for everyone in the community.

   • Embed this notice
     Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh: (cassidy@mastodon.blaede.family)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:51:29 JST Cassidy James :ea: :gg: :fh:

     My city has this market to hang out at with lots of shops and places to eat, but they surveil the crap out of you; cameras around every corner recording every person’s every movement—and they’re constantly encouraging you to spend money.

     My city also has a neat publicly-funded library with a chill little café if you want to grab a coffee or breakfast burrito. They have 3D printers and you can borrow books or use the computers and printers for free, or just exist in the space without obligation.