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   Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Thursday, 13-Jul-2023 19:02:47 JST Abolisyonista

   Subtooting something that said anarchists don't know how to clean a city's sewers because an online anarcho argued the answer to “who will clean the sewers” was that sewers would be abolished in favor of community-scaled composting and plumbing. I don't actually disagree. Modern sewage systems are environmentally destructive and takes a convoluted industrial process to detoxify sewage.

   Liberals and state socialists aren't ready for a conversation about creating ways of living that compliment rather than contradict the natural world. Of course hard questions like “how will we manage sewage” need to be answered, but we mustn't shy away if the answers are scary — that current ways of living may not or even could not exist in a truly liberated society.

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     EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER (be@floss.social)'s status on Thursday, 13-Jul-2023 19:43:49 JST EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2021/03/urban-fish-ponds-low-tech-sewage-treatment-for-towns-and-cities

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     Miia Mustang (miiamustang@eliitin-some.fi)'s status on Thursday, 13-Jul-2023 19:44:10 JST Miia Mustang

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista A thing that I feel many miss in these discussions is the possibility of having a transitionary phase from our currently existing and life upholding infrastructure to new types/ways of managing these things.

     It's not like anarchists would immediately destroy clean drinking water facilities as "petit bourgeois systems of the old" when everyone's life depends on it.

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     EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER (be@floss.social)'s status on Thursday, 13-Jul-2023 19:45:44 JST EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista This whole city was built on making our sewage Somebody Else's Problem (particularly, St. Louis' problem).

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     EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER (be@floss.social)'s status on Thursday, 13-Jul-2023 19:45:45 JST EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista This hits home:

     'The Mayor’s Office also advised residents to limit their household water use as the sewer system struggled to “move the water efficiently.”'

     https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/07/03/chicagoans-clean-up-dry-out-after-weekend-of-record-rainfall-and-flash-floods/

     Meanwhile, parking lots are still getting built and all the streets are covered in asphalt and cement 🙃

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     emma best 🏳️‍🌈 🏴 Mx. Yzptlk (natsecgeek@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 13-Jul-2023 20:24:14 JST emma best 🏳️‍🌈 🏴 Mx. Yzptlk

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista Anarchists that want to use the same unsustainable techniques and methods as capitalists confuse the shit out of me.

     "If you can't replicate the system we're trying to dismantle, obviously you're an amateur who doesn't know anything."

     Here my simple ass was thinking the idea was to replace those systems, not keep them but with "good people" in charge

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     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Thursday, 13-Jul-2023 21:11:53 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     • emma best 🏳️‍🌈 🏴 Mx. Yzptlk

     @NatSecGeek reminds me of something I read.

     “People want to treat ‘we’ll figure it out by working to get there’ as some sort of rhetorical evasion instead of being a fundamental expression of trust in the power of conscious collective effort.” ~Anonymous, but quoted by Mariame Kaba

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     emma best 🏳️‍🌈 🏴 Mx. Yzptlk (natsecgeek@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 13-Jul-2023 21:11:54 JST emma best 🏳️‍🌈 🏴 Mx. Yzptlk

     @abolisyonista Exactly, and (to my mind, anyway) in some ways it might seem like a giant pause button on society (or even a step or two "backwards" when it comes to true luxury items a la 4K screens) while we figure out how to fix things or do them sustainably instead of prioritizing growth for its own sake, or products that fill a need that only exists in the mind or didn't exist at all until the "solution" was created

     And I'll readily admit, I'm not the one with the solution to a lot of those things. It'll take people smarter and more educated than me in a lot of fields to figure it all out. And there's no shame in that. No one should expect society to be flawlessly rebuilt by any one person or even any one group of people. That's not realistic and I hate the people that play "Gotcha" because someone (or maybe even everyone) hasn't figured out a solution to a problem yet. But if you go up to someone who supports the current systems of power and ask them "ok what's the solution to the 100+ ongoing ecological crises that humans are directly responsible for?" and suddenly not knowing isn't a Gotcha anymore