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   Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:16:16 JST Hélène
   wanting to remake fedi because "activitypub is bad" or whatever is nice and all but it's just missing the point of what makes fedi good; it's not the technology, it's the people
   
   you can write code but that won't make the people come to your network if it doesn't communicate with the rest; as that is the point of a social network
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     Ukko (fake) (ukko@p.enes.lv)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:18:38 JST Ukko (fake)

     in reply to
     @helene I'll force them
     Hélène likes this.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:18:47 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Ukko (fake)
     @ukko as long as you have cheese
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     Ukko (fake) (ukko@p.enes.lv)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:22:22 JST Ukko (fake)

     in reply to

     • Ukko (fake)
     @helene If Furkan forced me to join the fediverse I can force the fediverse to join my new epic federated social network
     Hélène likes this.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:45:51 JST Hélène

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @antichrist_hater @Zergling_man why so?
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:45:52 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @helene yes very bad argument
   • Embed this notice
     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:45:54 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to
     @helene Bad argument.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:46:46 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @antichrist_hater i mean, that's why it still exists though? same for instagram or twitter
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:46:48 JST Zergling_man

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @helene @antichrist_hater You can justify Facebook by that logic.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:47:27 JST Hélène

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @antichrist_hater my point is "you've got to make it really compelling for people to move"
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:55:22 JST Hélène

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @antichrist_hater @Zergling_man you can make new protocols if you want, mastodon did it to push a migration from OStatus to ActivityPub
     but you've got to make it compelling or have a large enough userbase that people want to support that new protocol, or things just won't change and the protocol you want to deprecate never will be
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:55:26 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man It seems like you are saying that a new better protocol or a better implementation of the current one shouldnt be used because then the other servers wouldnt be able to communicate with you, so basically excusing a bad status quo saying that something new is too tiresome to do.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:58:33 JST Hélène

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @antichrist_hater @Zergling_man if you consider the network to be 5 instances then yes sure
     but that's not the case; and i don't believe in that either, and not everyone uses the same software for a reason
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:58:36 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man like you need to convince like 5 people in order to completely take over fedi.
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:58:39 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man I think the protocol just has to be better and your software good and all instance admins will test it out and eventually make it their main server.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:59:39 JST Hélène

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @antichrist_hater not sure what you're saying here (could you reformulate?
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 19:59:40 JST Zergling_man

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @helene @antichrist_hater But the solution is simple. Dead simple. There's no missing the point on the part of the people making the software, only on the part of you who would detract because of it.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:05:32 JST Hélène

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @antichrist_hater @Zergling_man i don't see Secure Scuttlebutt very used or any of the similar alternatives either
     OStatus is supposedly much better than ActivityPub yet it's gone
     Diaspora is also supposedly much better but it's EoL
     
     etc, etc: so what's up with that, then?
     ActivityPub can and will improve so people will do that instead of rewriting everything and because they actually want to federate and talk with their friends or other software (or they'll at least support it, like Revolver); it's not a technical issue, people will improve the already existing stuff or support it/augment it
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:05:34 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man and I also disagree that the people make fedi good not the tech, the tech was first then the people came, if the people leave but the tech improves new people will come, people just are and they will come or go depending on the tech, and the tech can force them to be nice or can allow them to be assholes, if there was no mute or block option on fedi nobody would be here for example.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:28:31 JST Hélène

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @antichrist_hater @Zergling_man >most of the network is a small number of instances where most of the users are
     that's just blatantly wrong though, i think it's just your personal looking glass of who you follow and interact with, especially from SPC which is a large instance that is also blocked by a lot of other big instances for very various reasons (so there's a lot you'll never see from there)
     i can assure you from my timeline here that most of the people i interact with are from quite small instances; if you consider poast + baest + spc + fse + mastosoc to be fedi then it's just misguided, stats and usages particularly show otherwise, and my instance's peering list (or any federation stats from a Misskey/Foundkey/etc instance) would show how wrong that is
     
     >The software just has to be good enough in order to justify moving to it
     yes, and in 99% of cases, it isn't good enough. mastodon was good enough for people to move to it, pleroma too, but even in those cases, GNU Social compatibility was kept as a pseudo-transition period. those are exceptions.
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:28:33 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man most of the network is a small number of instances where most of the users are, and if they were to adopt X software the rest would follow.
     
     The software just has to be good enough in order to justify moving to it, some companies rewrite their whole codebase in Rust, it's a matter of how good can you make it and more people will adopt it, past a certain point of goodness you are assured to dominate the market.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:32:50 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @antichrist_hater users don't care about the protocol, they care about something that works and something where their friends are
     people use whatsapp, facebook messenger, instagram, etc because that's where their friends and family are, not because it's particularly good. if something was that much better to push them to move then they would.
     
     twitter has groups, stories, posts where you can lock replies to followers only or no one, better edits and deletes, etc. isn't that an objectively better protocol and software? shouldn't that mean we should use twitter instead for those reasons, too? as far as i'm aware, that's not why people use twitter
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:32:52 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @helene @antichrist_hater Arguing against a new proto on the technical grounds of that proto is fine. Arguing against it because "nobody uses it" is bad. If there is nothing technically wrong with the proto, use it. Then there'll be people using it.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:41:45 JST Hélène

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @antichrist_hater it's not just that, it's also that ActivityPub had major improvements over OStatus that OStatus was just impossible to extend for, like post scopes, from what I've heard (I wanted to read OStatus docs but they're all gone, but considering what I've seen of the design, I believe it)
     
     Pleroma was designed as an ActivityPub-centered software first, OStatus second; and it was originally designed as a GNU Social frontend, mind you, so it's not "largely driven by Mastodon". In both cases, they kept compatibility for OStatus, because communicating with the people was still the most important. I don't believe either would've taken off if not for that.
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:41:46 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @antichrist_hater @helene Keep in mind that AP's popularity is largely driven by mastodon. I'm sure I don't need to point out the flaw in your logic there.
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:41:47 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man and I dont know about OStatus or whatever to be able to say that they are inherently superior to AP, my guess is probably not, otherwise they would have taken over.
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:42:05 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @antichrist_hater @helene >given enough time the inherently superior technology will win
     I'm not convinced of this, not without us fighting tirelessly for it at least.
     Which I will do anyway.
     Hélène likes this.
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:42:10 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

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     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @helene my point is given enough time the inherently superior technology will win, and working on top of something that is destined to lose is dumb in my opinion.
     
     You can always work on the actual better thing while using the worse but popular thing until it dies.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:44:33 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @antichrist_hater @Zergling_man very warped view and indeed you should look at the stats
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:44:36 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man
     
     I dont have stats but I am so convinced the majority of users are in big instances that I am willing to risk looking dumb.
     
     mastodon.jp misskey.io spinster poast mastodon.social
     
     those are the type of instances most of fedi happens in.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:45:28 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @antichrist_hater >Twitter is godawful software.
     why, because it's closed source? i don't think it's relevant to 99% of people, it only matters here because it's fedi, and people here really care about that stuff
     otherwise no one actually cares
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:45:30 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @helene @antichrist_hater Twitter is godawful software. That much should be obvious.
     Anyway, https://birds.garden/notice/ANYKLNJ8f7j3GSwNEG
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     Mergan (mergan@pleroma.viridianpatriots.com)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:45:54 JST Mergan

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man @antichrist_hater https://fediverse.space/
     Hélène likes this.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:56:10 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @antichrist_hater @Zergling_man some do, most don't which is why twitter is still the most used social network in the world, and discord is also the most used IM platform in the world, because most people believe those issues are not outweighing the advantages or worth missing out on the people using them
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:56:12 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man Im pretty sure people care about not being able to say a bunch of things for fear of getting banned or silenced, and seeing ads constantly.
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     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:57:21 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @antichrist_hater should've said "microblogging", but yeah tiktok etc
     still the same point really
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:57:22 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @helene @antichrist_hater
     Hélène likes this.
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     Ukko (fake) (ukko@p.enes.lv)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 20:59:30 JST Ukko (fake)

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     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man @antichrist_hater If we could federate with Twitter aside from creating crossposting bots, that'd already be a part of ActivityPub
     Hélène likes this.
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     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Sep-2022 21:31:34 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

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     • Zergling_man
     @helene @Zergling_man because there is no good enough alternative