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   aeva (aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:25:54 JST aeva

   • mlinksva

   @mlinksva maybe there's some worth to implementing the "boring" parts (parts specific to resource management, or are most critical to write in a "safe" language) in FastSafeLang, and then embedding lua (or some other embedding-friendly smol squishy language) to implement the parts that are more interesting for customization

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:25:47 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • mlinksva
     • Marcel Weiher

     @mlinksva @aeva @mpweiher I would say that FastSafeLang is a subset of SquishyLang. It's faster and safer because of the things you are no longer allowed to do.

     That's if SquishyLang has optional/gradual static typing. Otherwise there's a bridging language of which both languages are a subset.

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     mlinksva (mlinksva@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:25:48 JST mlinksva

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Marcel Weiher

     https://mastodon.social/@mpweiher/110502060109056060 and https://blog.metaobject.com/2019/12/the-4-stages-of-objective-smalltalk.html by @mpweiher reminded me of this. Flipped, rarer, but maybe with more potential. In terrms used above, FastSafeLang as superset of easy to learn squishy language.

     @clacke @aeva

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     clacke at libranet.de is my main (notclacke@misskey.de)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:25:50 JST clacke at libranet.de is my main

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • mlinksva

     @mlinksva@mastodon.social True, Apache mod_* is about the same thing and pretty old.
     
     Framework level would be cool and doesn't sound far-fetched at all. Someone will do it.
     
     @clacke@libranet.de @aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place

   • Embed this notice
     mlinksva (mlinksva@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:25:51 JST mlinksva

     in reply to

     • clacke

     @clacke @aeva I'm unfamiliar w/those but C web server exposing low level scripting interface semi-popular forever eg Navi/Tcl, Netscape/js, Apache/mod_*, I guess ngnix/Lua now. Definitely thinking of pushing FastSafeLang impl up to ~framework level, with scripting for only application-specific code. Figure it's a naive thought though considering unpopularity to say the least.

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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:25:52 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • mlinksva
     @mlinksva @aeva On a low level it has, see e.g. Puma or uWSGI. But it would be cool to see it on the application level too.
   • Embed this notice
     mlinksva (mlinksva@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:25:53 JST mlinksva

     in reply to

     @aeva right! Nevermind fediverse servers, it's always been amazing to me that web apps in general haven't taken this path. But, has to be designed for, evidently a huge barrier.

   • Embed this notice
     mlinksva (mlinksva@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:29:32 JST mlinksva

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Marcel Weiher

     @clacke do you have an existence proof of FastSafeLang ⊆ SquishyLang?

     I don't see how that works.

     Seems to me that types and eg more control over memory requires more not less of a language, so (after seeing Mojo and reeading @mpweiher's blog) FastSafeLang ⊇ SquishyLang is possible, and seems natural.

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:29:32 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • mlinksva
     • Marcel Weiher

     @mlinksva @mpweiher Various subsets of Python can compile to native.
     There is one in particular that requires everything to have type annotations and has some other restrictions like no imperative code in the module top level.

     All of the compiled language is valid Python, but not all Python is valid to this compiler. I'll find the name for it, I think it might have been Dropbox that are using it.

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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:29:52 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • mlinksva
     • Marcel Weiher

     @mlinksva @mpweiher Spark vs Ada is an existence proof for SafeLang vs Lang.

     asm.js is an existence proof for FastLang vs SquishyLang.

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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2023 06:29:57 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • mlinksva
     • Marcel Weiher

     @mlinksva @mpweiher Still can't find the one I'm looking for, but #codon is another recent "slight superset to a subset" of Python approach as opposed to Mojo's "add new stuff" approach to modifying Python.

     docs.exaloop.io/codon/general/…

     It looks to me, just at a quick glance, that Mojo syntax additions to Python could have been Python-compatible additions in the form of decorators that are noop or validating at runtime on CPython, perhaps validating on mypy, and allowing tight compilation on mojo.

   • Embed this notice
     mlinksva (mlinksva@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 09:29:09 JST mlinksva

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • Marcel Weiher

     Just occured to me that Red and Red/System https://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs.html might be another example of a systems language that is a su*set (not certain which) of a scripting language https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Red_(programming_language) @mpweiher @clacke @aeva

     clacke likes this.