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   myrmidon (myrmidon@mas.to)'s status on Friday, 09-Jun-2023 15:39:38 JST myrmidon

   @manton Donation-supported isn't more sustainable.

   • Embed this notice
     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 09-Jun-2023 15:39:36 JST FediTips has moved!

     in reply to

     @myrmidon @manton

     I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure if it's accurate?

     Ad-supported networks have to do incredibly shady possibly illegal things in order to have viable business models.

     Grassroots networks run by volunteers and supported by donations simply don't need to do this.

     Commercial networks also have extremely low staff-to-user ratios compared to donation-supported, which is why they use moderation algorithms a lot more. Commercial networks cannot afford enough moderators.

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     myrmidon (myrmidon@mas.to)'s status on Friday, 09-Jun-2023 19:58:53 JST myrmidon

     in reply to

     • FediTips has moved!

     @feditips @manton We agree, the problem is the “attention economy” not the ads per se.
     Agree to disagree on moderation: you can only ask so much to volunteers.

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 09-Jun-2023 19:58:53 JST FediTips has moved!

     in reply to

     @myrmidon @manton

     Sure, I'm just saying there are far more people moderating on a volunteer system.

     On centralised networks there may be one human moderator for 100,000 people, on decentralised ones it's more like 1 for 1000.

     By spreading out the ownership, it attracts more people to moderate because they are more motivated to look after their own server.

   • Embed this notice
     myrmidon (myrmidon@mas.to)'s status on Friday, 09-Jun-2023 20:26:44 JST myrmidon

     in reply to

     • FediTips has moved!

     @feditips @manton First, nobody knows. You’d need access to moderation metrics.
     Second, a Facebook has one of the best ML team, money to power the needed servers. (networks owned by crazies will vanish.)

     Thinking that ML doesn’t outpace humans here is like betting on a human driver or a human go player.

     But if we go full federation, moderation might be less of an issue? (it will be easy to moderate your family, your co-workers or members of your association).

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 09-Jun-2023 20:26:44 JST FediTips has moved!

     in reply to

     @myrmidon @manton

     We know how many Fediverse servers there are and how many users, it averages out at about 1 server per 1000 users. That's an average of at least 1 moderator per 1000 Fedi users.

     To match this ratio. Facebook would need 3 million moderators. I doubt they have the capacity to pay that many people, their entire staff is about 80,000. FB may run moderation sweatshops, but I doubt they have 3 million people in them, and if they do then the working conditions/pay must be immoral.

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     FediTips has moved! (feditips@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 09-Jun-2023 20:28:36 JST FediTips has moved!

     in reply to

     @myrmidon @manton

     Playing a game of Go is nothing like moderation.

     Go has clear winning conditions, moderation is a complex cultural phenomenon.

     Replacing people with machines is just going to reflect the priorities of the makers of those machines. You might think that's okay, I think it's the opposite of what decentralisation and the Fediverse is supposed to do.