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   Joanna Bryson, blathering (j2bryson@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 03-Jun-2023 17:37:05 JST Joanna Bryson, blathering

   Last night I participated in a panel on CPT & AGI at a major international art event in Leipzig. Several of the other panelists had been flown in from California. The art event is partially funded by Palantir, and thus is being boycotted. There were about 50 people in the audience. On the way to dinner, we passed a street performer with a styrofoam dog on a stick that had a crowd of about 300. Even without the boycott, I doubt our panel would have had 200 people. 1/2

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     pettter (pettter@mastodon.acc.umu.se)'s status on Saturday, 03-Jun-2023 17:37:04 JST pettter

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     @j2bryson I'd say the Palantir thing, personally. "High art" does have actual value (though it is massively inflated in monetary terms), and the harm that it does is largely in ancillary systems that would do similar harm in different ways if art wasn't available (maintaining/reinforcing various social hierarchies and tax evasion).

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     Joanna Bryson, blathering (j2bryson@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 03-Jun-2023 17:37:05 JST Joanna Bryson, blathering

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     I was impressed by the chair of the first panel (mine was the second & last of the day) which was on the impact of creative AI on art, who said we needed to be honest, that art was fundamentally exclusive. I love art with a passion, but I wonder if it's more ethically objectionable of me to generally invest so much time & money patronising publicly funded "high art" or to have my name associated with a Palantir event. 2/2

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     pettter (pettter@mastodon.acc.umu.se)'s status on Saturday, 03-Jun-2023 17:39:14 JST pettter

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     @j2bryson Personally, I don't think that art is "fundamentally exclusive", though I guess it depends on how you categorise exclusion by way of being deliberately obtuse and aimed at a specific in-group who knows the various histories and symbols you're alluding to.

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     pettter (pettter@mastodon.acc.umu.se)'s status on Saturday, 03-Jun-2023 21:21:17 JST pettter

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     @j2bryson No, Palantir is by its very construction oppressive and authoritarian. It's what they do, fundamentally. Being as deeply involved and supportive of global violent domination and mass surveillance is certainly not making it any _better_ (neither is being owned by one of the most repulsive billionaires out there, which is saying something), but even the most benign variant of Palantir is still a crappy enterprise. Art, even fine art, could actually be morally neutral, or even good.

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     Joanna Bryson, blathering (j2bryson@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 03-Jun-2023 21:21:18 JST Joanna Bryson, blathering

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     • pettter

     @pettter Palantir isn’t similar? Also, I feel more likely to influence Palantir, & to learn stuff that might help gvern them & their less-engaged competitors.

     I left the US in 2002 partly to avoid working with the US military on “battlefields of the future”, but I’ve wound up working with them a little anyway, including accepting funding https://joanna-bryson.blogspot.com/2016/04/why-i-took-military-funding-myth-of.html
     This feels a bit like that but I’m still not sure about either. The only thing I really shun is RT (since 2018) https://joanna-bryson.blogspot.com/2018/12/who-do-we-talk-through-tentative-policy.html

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     pettter (pettter@mastodon.acc.umu.se)'s status on Saturday, 03-Jun-2023 21:22:23 JST pettter

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     @j2bryson Oh for sure, the current implementation of fine art is definitely an exclusive and extremely exclusionary institution.

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     Joanna Bryson, blathering (j2bryson@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 03-Jun-2023 21:22:24 JST Joanna Bryson, blathering

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     • pettter

     @pettter I think she meant the fine art industry, I agree art as expression & participation/ recognition is individual and utterly universal. But few can live off it. Few try to unless they or their families are fairly secure.