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1. Embed this notice
   wakest ⁂ (liaizon@social.wake.st)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 09:29:50 JST wakest ⁂

   • The Matrix.org Foundation
   • Element

   So with @matrix and @element explicitly supporting cops and fascist governments what does that mean for their and our anarcho future?

   • feld repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Michael Downey 🇺🇳 (downey@floss.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 09:29:48 JST Michael Downey 🇺🇳

     in reply to

     @liaizon

     Ask me after I find my replacement for Linux, Nextcloud, XMPP, Android, Postgres....

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 09:33:10 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Michael Downey 🇺🇳
     If you make choices in life based upon the criteria of whether or not "people I don't like use it too" you will have to give up everything
   • Embed this notice
     wakest ⁂ (liaizon@social.wake.st)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 09:33:11 JST wakest ⁂

     in reply to

     • Michael Downey 🇺🇳

     @downey what versions of Linux, nextcloud and xmpp are explicitly showing up to police conventions and trying to get them to use their software?

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 11:38:10 JST feld

     in reply to
     LOL what are you even talking about
   • Embed this notice
     wakest ⁂ (liaizon@social.wake.st)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 11:38:11 JST wakest ⁂

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld I have seen your stance on police before so thanks for the life advice but uh good luck with whatever mission your on I guess

   • Embed this notice
     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ (lain@lain.com)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 19:59:00 JST on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

     in reply to
     @liaizon one can still use the tools, and I don't think that it materially changes much if the police uses matrix or SAP BusinessChat or whatever they used before.
   • Embed this notice
     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ (lain@lain.com)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 21:03:09 JST on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

     in reply to

     • clacke
     @clacke @liaizon sure, but spec excellence isn't an area where matrix was shining anyway. IDK, i think many people are kind of unclear about what they actually want. They want governments to pay for FOSS, but then they want governments to not use it. Then if companies support it, everyone's afraid that they might get too much influence. So what's the right way to write ethical software then? Sit in your apartment with the blinds down reading kropotkin, hoping for the rest of the world to recognize the moral superiority of your code? (not saying that liaizon thinks this way).
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 21:03:10 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
     @lain @liaizon It potentially affects the future if people who dominate the spec and dev kiss up to them.
   • Embed this notice
     wakest ⁂ (liaizon@social.wake.st)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 21:56:34 JST wakest ⁂

     in reply to

     • on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
     • clacke

     @lain @clacke I wasnt even arguing that I dont want police to use matrix. I am actually in favor of them using floss software. I am not in favor of linking a financial incentive between the police and the people making decisions about the software I am putting my trust in. I understand "government national security budgets" get involved in lots of free software stuff and much of that is dirty money thats been laundered through a vagueposting machine and its quite harder to steer clear of it.

     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 15:27:45 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

     @lain Cops are an arm of the government, many would say in some form a necessary one, but it's not a point of inconsistency to say that we want open source software to get funding from the science, education, infrastructure, information and healthcare arms of government, and accept the police and military as customers like anybody else in society, while not framing the violent and frequently (unavoidably?) problematic arms of government as favored customers where you directly collaborate with them or promote yourself at their specific conferences.

     If militaries use Matrix internally, fine, can't stop 'em, it's open source, also no ethical sales under capitalism. If leading Matrix representatives promote Matrix at the arms fair in Abu Dhabi, not only super bad optics but genuine cause for concern about leadership priorities.

     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ likes this.