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1. Embed this notice
   petersuber (petersuber@fediscience.org)'s status on Sunday, 07-May-2023 01:25:06 JST petersuber

   This is big. No #embargoes. No #APCs.

   "The #EU is ready to agree that immediate #OpenAccess to papers reporting publicly funded research should become the norm, w/o authors having to pay fees & that the bloc should support #nonprofit scholarly publishing models.

   In a move that could send shockwaves through commercial scholarly #publishing, the positions are due to be adopted by the Council of the EU member state governments later this month."
   https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-europe-infrastructure-2023-5-eu-ready-to-back-immediate-open-access-without-author-fees/

   #Europe #RightsRetention

   • clacke likes this.
   • clacke repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Børge (forteller@tutoteket.no)'s status on Sunday, 07-May-2023 01:26:06 JST Børge

     in reply to

     @petersuber Fucking finally! Fantastic news!

   • Embed this notice
     petersuber (petersuber@fediscience.org)'s status on Wednesday, 24-May-2023 04:32:23 JST petersuber

     in reply to

     Update. The #EuropeanCouncil just adopted the #OpenScience proposal anticipated earlier this month (this thread, above). No #embargoes. No #APCs. #Nonprofit publishing. #OpenLicenses. #OpenInfrastructure. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2023/05/23/council-calls-for-transparent-equitable-and-open-access-to-scholarly-publications/

     While this is not yet policy, it's a weighty recommendation to the Commission and member states.

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Benoît Régent-Kloeckner (brkloeckner@piaille.fr)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:11:46 JST Benoît Régent-Kloeckner

     in reply to

     • Nick

     @internic @petersuber
     See https://piaille.fr/@BrKloeckner/110325985820372019
     To take a concrete example, I participated in the move of Journal of Algebraic Combinatorics' original editorial board to move out of Springer's grip to remake the journal as no-fee OA. It is a small journal, about 1500 pages a year. The revenue for Springer (through subscribtions) must have been in the ballpark of .5 M€/ year. The new journal operates with 10k€/year and the support of a public publisher.

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   • Embed this notice
     Nick (internic@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:11:48 JST Nick

     in reply to

     @petersuber Open access is certainly desirable, no author fees obviously sounds good, and I agree that if it would be better if journals were not-for-profit ventures, but I'm unclear how the significant work performed by the journal staff will be funded if we remove both embargoes and author fees.

   • Embed this notice
     Marek Gluza (marekgluza@mathstodon.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:13:29 JST Marek Gluza

     in reply to

     • FediThing
     • Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
     • SciPost
     • Quantum Journal

     @TimWardCam @FediThing @petersuber as demonstrated by @scipost and @quantumjournal none of your worries are an issue. Quality research publishing at a fraction of the current fees (and having staff) works if you're not set on making profits

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   • Embed this notice
     Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE (timwardcam@c.im)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:13:30 JST Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     in reply to

     • FediThing

     @FediThing @petersuber

     Depends.

     If a researcher decides that they don't need or want the things a publisher offers - some mixture of peer review, editing, branding, marketing, hosting, printing and distribution (if dead tree versions are still being produced) - then they don't need to use a publisher, no. They can write whatever they like and stick it on their own blog, which their institution probably pays the costs of.

     And a number of academics do in fact do this. Though it probably helps if they're sufficiently advanced in their career that they've already established a reputation / brand. How seriously would you take a random blog written by someone you've never heard of? - not very, not least because you'd probably never come across it in the first place.

     If a researcher *does* want those things that a publisher does then someone has to pay for them. Whether the publisher is for profit or not is just the standard public / private debate - sometimes public sector is cheaper, and sometimes it isn't.

   • Embed this notice
     FediThing (fedithing@tech.lgbt)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:13:31 JST FediThing

     in reply to

     • Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     @TimWardCam @petersuber

     But is a for-profit publisher needed in this situation?

   • Embed this notice
     Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE (timwardcam@c.im)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:13:32 JST Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     in reply to

     • FediThing

     @FediThing @petersuber Um, yes? Publishers have staff who, like anyone else, expect to be able to feed their children and pay their mortgages.

   • Embed this notice
     FediThing (fedithing@tech.lgbt)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:13:33 JST FediThing

     in reply to

     • Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     @TimWardCam @petersuber

     Is the cost of publication significant any more?

   • Embed this notice
     FediThing (fedithing@tech.lgbt)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:13:34 JST FediThing

     in reply to

     • Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     @TimWardCam @petersuber

     Unless I'm missing something, this only concerns research that has already been publicly funded anyway?

   • Embed this notice
     Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE (timwardcam@c.im)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:13:34 JST Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     in reply to

     • FediThing

     @FediThing @petersuber The research, yes, but not the publication. The article appears to say that funding the publication is still an open question.

   • Embed this notice
     Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE (timwardcam@c.im)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:13:35 JST Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     in reply to

     @petersuber "So who pays?" I wondered.

     So I read the article.

     Which doesn't answer the question.

   • Embed this notice
     Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE (timwardcam@c.im)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:15:23 JST Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     in reply to

     • FediThing
     • Marek Gluza
     • SciPost
     • Quantum Journal

     @Marekgluza @FediThing @petersuber @scipost @quantumjournal So why doesn't everybody just use those publishers? - there must be a market for the others or people wouldn't pay!

   • Embed this notice
     Marek Gluza (marekgluza@mathstodon.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:15:23 JST Marek Gluza

     in reply to

     • FediThing
     • Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
     • SciPost
     • Quantum Journal

     @TimWardCam @FediThing @petersuber @scipost @quantumjournal

     Science is a highly hierarchical community. Those deciding to publish for a nonsensical fee overpay for their private career gain.

     The review is paid for by the public funds that pay the salaries of the reviewers doing it for free. The actual product has been paid for by the public in the first place. Editing can be done by the community. A high impact label can be constructed at a lower cost than it is offered now.

     The answer to your attempt at a testing why? is that there is a maladaptive social phenomenon in place.

     It stems from those at the peak of the science hierarchy not stepping up to lead the community soundly.

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     petersuber (petersuber@fediscience.org)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:15:27 JST petersuber

     in reply to

     Update. 10 European research organizations just lent their weight to the Council's recommendation:
     https://www.coalition-s.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/JointResponse2CouncilScholCommConclusions.pdf

     European University Association (#EUA), Science Europe, Ass of European Research Libraries (#LIBER), European Federation of Academies of Sciences & Humanities (#ALLEA), Association of ERC Grantees (#AERG), Marie Curie Alumni Ass (#MCAA), European Council of Doctoral Candidates & Jr Researchers (#Eurodoc), #cOAlition_S, #OPERAS, & the French National Research Agency (#ANR).

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   • Embed this notice
     petersuber (petersuber@fediscience.org)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:16:43 JST petersuber

     in reply to

     • Prof Heino Falcke

     @hfalcke
     I grant that a 2 day embargo is pretty harmless to researchers. But the older funder OA policies permitted embargoes of 6-12 months, which is very different. The new policies are pushing back against that.

     On your final point, embargoes are relevant to OA and open science because past funder OA policies permitted significant embargoes and now tend to prohibit them. In any case, I'm commenting on the policies, not trying to limit myself to any particular notion of open science.

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   • Embed this notice
     Prof Heino Falcke (hfalcke@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:16:46 JST Prof Heino Falcke

     in reply to

     @petersuber Fields a different. In our case an embargo is usually 2 days only. In most cases those two days won’t change the course of the world. However, it gives journalists the chance to check a story and collect independent- sometimes critical- voices. This gives better science reporting and increases trust rather than having to race after the next hype. Moreover, you are sneaking something into the open science discussion that doesn’t belong there.

   • Embed this notice
     petersuber (petersuber@fediscience.org)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:16:47 JST petersuber

     in reply to

     • Prof Heino Falcke

     @hfalcke
     Dropping #embargoes accelerates research. It helps authors and their new work reach readers faster. It helps readers find and read new work faster, and that includes readers who happen to be journalists. Once research is ready to share, artificial delays in sharing it are an artificial brake on applying and building on that research. Dropping embargoes is esp important for time-sensitive research, such as developing tests and vaccines during a pandemic.

   • Embed this notice
     Prof Heino Falcke (hfalcke@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 27-May-2023 19:16:48 JST Prof Heino Falcke

     in reply to

     @petersuber what‘s the point of no embargo? Embargo is an effective measure to give equal access to journalists and give them time to properly research a topic without having to go into a rat race 🤔