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   silverwizard (silverwizard@convenient.email)'s status on Saturday, 15-Apr-2023 06:01:20 JST silverwizard
   Ok - so full disclosure - I hate American Gods - it's a Bad Book (imo)
   
   But I read up to the end of the City of Glass issue yesterday, and I feel like Neil Gaiman's Sandman is just... trying to shock me repeatedly, and its calls to empathy refuse to not try to make me feel bad for my empathy by revealing a secret that the person I was empathizing with *suuuuuucked* retroactively. "You think this woman is bad?! Well she's a lesbian! HA! You empathized with her for being a lesbian! BUT SHE'S PHYSICALLY ABUSIVE HA!", and like, that's bad empathy, and bad storytelling, and it's not *fun*.
   
   And uh- question - Morpheus definitely is implied to have forced himself on Nada? Right? That's what the closing paragraph says? I'm supposed to like this shitty person? Or like, at least think he's worth following?
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     silverwizard (silverwizard@convenient.email)'s status on Saturday, 15-Apr-2023 06:30:13 JST silverwizard

     in reply to

     • The Corodon
     @thecorodon
     
     Ok, yeah, I had a bad experience with the same stuff in American Gods but I *loved* Anansi Boys and Neverwhere, so I am willing to stay onboard. Death The High Cost Of Living made me cry in a way I almost *cannot* do, but in a good way. Gaiman's obsession with Story And Myth As Magic is fun and I thing I generally like, so I'm happy to keep going, but it definitely feels like it's trying to be Greg Stolze a lot.
     
     And yeah, "that is a woman's tale" 100% reads to me as a Whisper Network en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whispe…
     
     But if it leaves horror behind and addresses that Morpheus kinda sucks, I'm excited to read on, because *damn* can Gaiman write when he's not being like "and then this person sucks". (I wanna be clear that I think it's fine/good for Morpheus to suck, as long as *that has a role in the tale* and isn't just... assumed).
     
     My favourite issues were the one retrieving the bag of Sand, and the one where he accompanies Death on Her rounds, both of those made me empathize with people who were imperfect, but without making me later hate them.
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     The Corodon (thecorodon@wandering.shop)'s status on Saturday, 15-Apr-2023 06:30:14 JST The Corodon

     in reply to

     @silverwizard
     ...Gaiman starts out very consciously mimicking Alan Moore's Saga of the Swamp Thing, and Moore's writing is pretty heartless. The one diner issue is by far the worst. As Gaiman gets more comfortable writing his own story, Sandman largely leaves that sort of horror behind.

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     The Corodon (thecorodon@wandering.shop)'s status on Saturday, 15-Apr-2023 06:30:15 JST The Corodon

     in reply to

     @silverwizard
     I don't think I can/should save Sandman for you but I have some thoughts.

     To your question, you're referring to "That is a woman's tale, not told to men?" I'd never thought of it that way, but that's a fair reading.

     But yes, we are supposed to judge Morpheus harshly for this and it is the beginning of the long arc of him realizing what a shit he's been, and trying to fix it.

     As for the shock stuff, that's worst in the early issues. I think [contd]

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     The Corodon (thecorodon@wandering.shop)'s status on Saturday, 15-Apr-2023 06:50:11 JST The Corodon

     in reply to

     @silverwizard
     Yeah I didn't attach any particular meaning to the line when I read it in like 2008, but it really reads your way today.
     I hope it earns the chance you give it.

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     silverwizard (silverwizard@convenient.email)'s status on Saturday, 15-Apr-2023 06:50:24 JST silverwizard

     in reply to

     • The Corodon
     @thecorodon yeah, I probably would have had a different read in 2008, but I don't know what the alternative is
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     silverwizard (silverwizard@convenient.email)'s status on Sunday, 16-Apr-2023 22:21:54 JST silverwizard

     in reply to

     • The Corodon
     @thecorodon alright, the second half of Volume 1 had things I didn't like, but I loved most of it
     
     The resolution of the Doll's House arc kinda made me trust more
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     silverwizard (silverwizard@convenient.email)'s status on Sunday, 16-Apr-2023 22:53:21 JST silverwizard

     in reply to

     • The Corodon
     @thecorodon honestly, just, it stayed horror, it stayed intense, but good things happened!
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     The Corodon (thecorodon@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 16-Apr-2023 22:53:22 JST The Corodon

     in reply to

     @silverwizard
     The end of the Cereal Convention is in the running for my favorite moment in the series.

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