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1. Embed this notice
   Back to the Alan (alan@blimey.social)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 05:42:54 JST Back to the Alan

   • Alex Gleason

   @alex Is it possible to implement a “local post only’ button with the other existing scope buttons?

   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 05:42:53 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     @alan For a while we didn’t implement local-only posts because the implementation in Pleroma was broken. It was essentially a “DM yourself” option.

     Even now after the issue is fixed, I’m hesitant. Not because of Gargron’s reasons, but because 4 privacy scopes are already a total disaster. Can you tell me what the difference is between Unlisted and Private? Why is it that when I reply to a Followers-Only post of your followers, my post is set to Followers-Only of my followers?

     IMO we have bigger tofu to fry. I don’t think shoveling more shit into that pile of shit is going to improve the situation.

     Also, I suspect what people really want is Groups, and they’re looking to local-only posting as a short-term substitute for the thing they actually want.

   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 05:47:47 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon

     @Moon @alan Unlisted hides your post from Local and Federated timelines, which doesn’t make sense. And it especially doesn’t make sense that it’s a visibility option only for one specific feature, the feature of which also isn’t a good design.

     I want to remove the Unlisted option, but the 5 people who use it will cry and scream.

   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 05:47:48 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     @alex @alan what actually is unlisted i never bothered to learn
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     anime graf mays ?️? (graf@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 05:50:11 JST anime graf mays ?️?

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Alex Gleason
     @alex @alan @Moon unlisted is a moderation nightmare. so is the bot tag with ForceBotsUnlisted MRF. I think users setting that themselves should be fully removed
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Flick ?? (flick@spinster.xyz)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 05:56:37 JST Flick ??

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Alex Gleason

     @alex @Moon @alan I’ve seen twitterdon types including in their lists of “rules” that one should only let the first post of a thread be listed, with subsequent replies-to-yourself being unlisted so as to avoid clogging up the timeline. (Of course, they could get around that by not having stupidly small character limits, so, y’know.)

     This seems to me to be a pretty good reason for getting rid of it.

     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:02:14 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • opal hart

     @opal @alan @Moon An alternative solution to that is this:

   • Embed this notice
     opal hart (opal@ap.maladaptive.art)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:02:15 JST opal hart

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Alex Gleason
     @alex @alan @Moon i wont cry if its done properly, but right now if i go back to posting public all the time then i would see trolls in my mentions again
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     ew (e@masochi.st)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:05:29 JST ew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Alex Gleason
     @alex @alan @Moon I think it makes sense to have these sort of options but the UX is bad. unlisted is good for when you want your posts to be publicly visible but you don't want to announce it to the whole world. I think instead of separate scope options it would be better to have something like "signal strength". level 0 is a DM, 1 is followers only, 2 is unlisted, 3 is globally, local only is a secondary toggle which caps it at 2 and doesn't federate
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:07:46 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew

     @e @alan @Moon Crucify me, but I think we should have algorithms. Having a single feed of ALL posts is not beneficial to anyone. We want to show posts of people you want to see. If we solve that problem and give people a good discovery feed, the federated timeline becomes outdated and we don’t need privacy scopes to revolve around them anymore.

   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:09:36 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     @alex @alan @e we will eventually get algorithms if the network keeps getting more popular, i always felt the "no algorithms" thing was only viable because everybody switched to a smaller network
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:10:18 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • meso

     @meso @alan @e @Moon I don’t even know how to do it, so don’t worry.

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     meso (meso@asbestos.cafe)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:10:19 JST meso

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     @alex @alan @e @Moon i dont get why you think algorithms are good i don't mind a time-based timeline and i see nothing wrong with it. please don't fuck this up
   • Embed this notice
     Ademan (ademan@thebag.social)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:10:50 JST Ademan

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     • mu

     it’s a signal and noise problem, I miss a bunch of posts from @mu I want to see because he posts fairly rarely and I follow hundreds of people, many of who post constantly. Likewise, I shit up a lot of people’s feeds and probably bury good content for others.

     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:11:29 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     @alex @alan @e the nuanced opinion i think is "I want _non-evil_ algorithms that tweak a basically chronological timeline"
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:14:21 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • meso

     @e @meso @alan @Moon We should be working together more. But I don’t think I can stand doing so much code in the database ?

   • Embed this notice
     ew (e@masochi.st)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:14:22 JST ew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Alex Gleason
     • meso
     @alex @meso @alan @Moon I do :woozy_oncoming:
   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:15:51 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • meso
     • Erik Uden :verified:

     @Erik @meso @alan @e @Moon At this rate I don’t think we’ll ever remove that timeline, but a good goal is to create something so much better that people don’t want to use the other thing anymore.

   • Embed this notice
     Erik Uden :verified: (erik@social.uden.ai)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:15:52 JST Erik Uden :verified:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     • meso

     I’ve had people ask for an algorithm too, but only as long as the chronological timeline always remains an option and if every instance can install their algorithm like a plugin.

   • Embed this notice
     ew (e@masochi.st)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:18:45 JST ew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Alex Gleason
     • meso
     @alex @meso @alan @Moon I actually didn't mean to become a database expert it was just an accident
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:19:01 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     It shouldn't be hard to track your own favorites, boosts, and thread views and extract some words from the post and compare to your past activity
     
     it can't automagically serve you content you didn't ask for but it can show you recent posts you've received that you're more likely to engage with
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:21:11 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • feld

     @feld @alan @e @Moon Ultimately we want suggested profiles, suggested hashtags, and suggested posts, and the data to figure out these things could overlap. For example a suggested feed could show you posts from suggested accounts.

   • Embed this notice
     ew (e@masochi.st)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:22:53 JST ew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Alex Gleason
     • feld
     @alan @feld @alex @Moon algorithms are needed for everything, if your brain didn't have an algorithm to see you would just see white (pink?) noise, but instead your brain parses out signals and creates a 3d mapping that you can use. eventually fedi needs these kinds of things because it becomes too noisy and costly to be usable. contrived example but imagine trying to host your own node and the fog of war isn't good enough and your server costs for a single person are astronomical because you have no way of filtering out what you receive and your database explodes just because you followed the wrong person
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Back to the Alan (alan@blimey.social)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:22:54 JST Back to the Alan

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     • feld

     I think an algorithm is a slippery slope. Can an algorithm truly work properly for that purpose?

   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:23:43 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • feld

     @e @alan @feld @Moon Water is bad because you can drown in it. And if you drink too much, it’ll poison you.

   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:25:24 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • feld
     • Abid Nevesinjac

     @abid @feld @alan @e @Moon I’m talking about a separate “discovery” feed from your home feed. If the home feed gets an algorithm, it should have the option to be chronological.

   • Embed this notice
     Abid Nevesinjac (abid@microblog.club)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:25:29 JST Abid Nevesinjac

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     • feld
     Uhmm that sound like algorithmic... Suggested profiles is very good thing, but suggested feed would be like forcing to see something user don't follow
   • Embed this notice
     Bill St. Clair (billstclair@impeccable.social)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:25:49 JST Bill St. Clair

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     • meso
     • Erik Uden :verified:
     @alex @meso @alan @e @Moon @Erik
     
     The Twitter algorithm is interesting, because it shows you posts you wouldn't otherwise see. In Mastodon/Soapbox, the best you can do is the Federated/Fediverse feed, but that shows you everything, instead. of just posts related to people you follow, so it's too much on a big server. Twitter made a good choice, IMHO, to have "For you" (algorithm) and "Following" feeds, but I think it's still nice to have the firehose, Federated/Fediverse feed.
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:25:57 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     Your email has a spam filter. It's an algorithm that decides which content you want to receive based on many points of data it derived from the message and past behavior. The only thing it doesn't do is reorder your inbox.
     
     This is not so different. Stop making algorithms the boogeyman. The problem is too much noise. The algorithm finds the signal so you don't have to waste your time.
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:26:35 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     • Abid Nevesinjac
     You'd make it another timeline, not the default one. Use it for discovery
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:30:51 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     • Abid Nevesinjac
     I'd just call it Discover or For You
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Back to the Alan (alan@blimey.social)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:30:52 JST Back to the Alan

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     • feld
     • Abid Nevesinjac

     So instead of “known network”, it would be “suggestions’?

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 27-Jan-2023 06:31:00 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • ew
     • Alex Gleason
     • feld
     • Abid Nevesinjac
     Oh that's funny Alex and I both suggested "discovery". It seems like an apt name.
     Alex Gleason likes this.