Notices by Fabian Giesen (rygorous@mastodon.gamedev.place), page 2

(de.) Hans Zimmer = (en.) John Carpenter

Like yes, I agree that it sucks that stb_image has a lot of exploitable bugs that often are around for months or years at a time but at the same time... we're completely transparent about this. Don't put this code in a security-sensitive context, especially if you need timely updates. We realistically can't serve that need and we have never claimed that we could.

I do have plenty of code that I professionally maintain (you know, at work, where I get paid to do so) where security issues get handled ASAP but... that's work.

Like that's actual work. I do that (and other support, and other coding) full-time every week. I'm not going to spend my weekends doing the exact same thing I do at work too. (I did for a while and it was _bad_ for me. I'm not going back.)

...so what's my point here?

For foundational libs (including xz/liblzma) tons of people depend on, it sure would be nice if, assuming there are people who _want_ to be full-time maintainers, get to actually be paid for doing so.

For something like the stb libs? I really don't know. I don't think we're foundational. If those libs disappeared overnight, nothing terrible would happen, people would just use other alternatives.

And "any open-source lib anywhere in the wild must be up to professional quality standards and respond to all bug reports in a timely fashion" is also a bullshit standard to apply to anything. It just doesn't work that way.

And the reason I'm writing a whole thread about this is that fundamentally, I refuse to treat this as a problem when a lot of discourse around open-source libs very much wants to pretend that it is.

I don't know, man. Some projects just exist to scratch a very particular niche itch and are maintained by people who have plenty of other things going on in their life and... that has to be OK?

For example, I usually take some time off around Christmas, and _usually_, 1-2 weekends around that time I spend on stb lib maintenance, because I'm on vacation anyway so it's not a context switch from work, and the weather is usually miserable where I live around that time.

2023 that didn't happen because I badly sprained my ankle early Dec and then got a cold in early Jan, so all my winter holiday time end-of-2023/early 2024 was spent being sick in some form or other.

Most of the maintenance I end up doing is security fixes in stb_image. These take a comically long time (often these stay open for more than 6 months).

I don't know what to say other than that stb_image has always had a note up top, which currently reads " Primarily of interest to game developers and other people who can avoid problematic images".

stb_image was _always_ meant for indie games and throwaway tools where you're in full control of the data.

The code was not originally written with security in mind and it shows. Now we do treat security bugs as bugs and _will_ fix them, eventually, but they're on the same schedule as any other bugs and feature requests, which is to say, realistically we do a real release once or twice a year.

Filing 20 bug reports will not make us respond any faster. Nor will filing CVEs or whatever.

Yes, I agree that it's not great that we don't get to these sooner.

But, realistically, _we just don't have the time and energy_.

The current schedule for stb lib maintenance is what works for us. The alternative is not "pay us and you get monthly releases". The real choice here is between either we update these libraries at all, at the leisurely schedule we do, or we abandon them entirely. Nagging us does not magically make us have more free time or energy.

To explain, I'm sort-of co-maintainer of the stb libs at https://github.com/nothings/stb. I say "sort of" because the way that originally worked is that Sean and I are friends and years ago Sean said "can I add you as maintainer to that repo in case something happens to me so it's not completely orphaned" and I said yes.

There's a recurring talking point in The Discourse about "this is why you need to pay OS lib devs" that is not entirely wrong yet simultaneously seems to be missing the point in a rather profound way for many scenarios.

It's true that many important libs that a lot of programs rely on (another example would be libjpeg-turbo) are underfunded and lack for resources, but beyond that still is code that doesn't even want to try, and I don't see space made for that either.

So I find myself the "emergency contact" for 20-odd libs, some of which I have used myself, most of which I have not.

Both Sean and I have full-time jobs doing other things, both of us have limited spare time, and realistically, either of us is actually willing to spend about 3 weekends worth of time in any given year on stb library maintenance.

And both of us keep getting angry/snide comments from people who fundamentally don't understand this.

As in, pay isn't the problem. Your feature requests/bug reports/whatever would not be handled any quicker if you tried to give us money for it (which people have tried to do).

I repeat, it's a 3-weekends-a-year spare-time project. I'm OK spending that amount of time on it, because sometimes I feel like doing so. No realistic amount of money is going to make me want to spend more than that, though. And sometimes it doesn't happen for other reasons.

"Hindsight is 20/20" there, reduced the fraction for you: hindsight is 1

One of the lesser discussed advantages of metric units is how you're never at a loss for words when describing how incredibly decadent something is, because hectodent, kilodent and even megadent are right there should the need arise.

I just whined about this elsewhere, but this makes a good post, so:
1. a very good feature of default Win32 message boxes is that they implement Ctrl-C to copy the error message and window title into the clipboard (formatted and everything)
2. way too few people know this, and accordingly, custom message boxes basically never implement this
3. if you work on custom UI libraries that have some message box facility, you should!

Art post reply peeves

"oh cool, is that a filter?" fuck off
"oh cool, is that AI?" fuck _all the way_ off
"I can't believe you made this" well better believe it since I did, also fuck off
"was this made on drugs?" inspired by drug trips is a thing. actually made on hallucinogenic drugs? if it's more complicated than a crayon drawing? fuck off.

OTOH

"how did you make this?" yes please
"what technique did you use for X?" more more more
"any pointers?" a-ok
"can you teach me?" never hurts to ask

Always remember kids, if you're a conscientious copper trader who makes fair deals then in 200 years nobody will remember you, but if you screw over people so much there's an entire room full of complaint tablets about your conduct you'll still be a meme 4000 years on

Welcome to object file formats, where everything is named confusingly for historical reasons