Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   tante (tante@tldr.nettime.org)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 15:13:39 JST tante

   (Just realized that in a very twisted way and not for the good of the community or product WordPress/Automattic are doing something like this. Just not explicit, not based on values, just driven by the whims of an unstable man)
   https://tldr.nettime.org/@tante/113561928635480013

   • Embed this notice
     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 15:13:37 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Lukas

     @darkcisum There is nothing viral about the #GNU GPL, it doesn't "infect" your code.

     > If you integrate a plugin into WordPress, which is under GPL, is the plugin also required to be GPL, because of this virality?

     The simple answer is "no". This is ignoring and simplifying things to the extreme, to answer one needs a more elaborate scenario. E.g. are you distributing the combined work? No? Then you've not accepted the terms of the GNU GPL and can really do anything you want.

     @tante

   • Embed this notice
     Lukas (darkcisum@swiss.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 15:13:38 JST Lukas

     in reply to

     @tante Automattic is going against multiple of their own Code of Conduct and official Handbook rules, which every other plugin maintainer has to follow.

     But I guess if you're the king of the castle, the rules suddenly don't apply to you anymore.

     GPL is a tricky thing though because of its virality. If you integrate a plugin into WordPress, which is under GPL, is the plugin also required to be GPL, because of this virality?
     I honestly don't know, but it's been kind of enforced in that way.

   • Embed this notice
     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 16:33:13 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Lukas

     @darkcisum If you use GPL code your code base doesn't have to become anything. Using software licensed under the GNU GPL does not mean you've accepted the license.

     You can perfectly well use GNU GPL in a Expat or even non-free software licensed project. It is the author who "injects" the code, not the license.

     Use is unrestricted, it is a a guaranteed freedom, freedom zero to be specific.

   • Embed this notice
     Lukas (darkcisum@swiss.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 16:33:14 JST Lukas

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt

     @amszmidt You can use a different term if you want, it doesn't change the fact that if you use GPL code, your code base *has to* become GPL as well. That's the virality I'm talking about. You can't use GPL code in your MIT licensed project, so the third-party code "injects" the requirement of GPL into your own code base.

     If constructed right, I'm sure there's a scenario where the plugin would need to be GPL licensed and there's a scenario where it doesn't need to be. That makes it uncertain.

   • Embed this notice
     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 17:10:32 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Lukas

     @darkcisum What I am saying is that you can _absolutely_ use #GNU #GPL code in a non-GPL compatible code base! It is not a violation of the #GNU GPL in any shape or form.

     The #GNU #GPL only comes into play when you *distribute* -- not when you use it. This is even in the #GNU #GPL FAQ.

   • Embed this notice
     Lukas (darkcisum@swiss.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 17:10:34 JST Lukas

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt

     @amszmidt Not sure I understand what you're saying, but you can't use GPL code in non-GPL compatible licensed code bases. I mean you *can*, but you'd be in violation of the GPL license.
     If you don't agree with that, I have some news for you 😄

     Of course you can build commercial products around GPL code, that doesn't remove the requirements of GPL.

   • Embed this notice
     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 17:17:51 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Lukas

     @darkcisum Most probobly not (I don't know the details of Wordpress) ... accessing something over the network is not distribution under the #GNU GPL. Had Wordpress been #GNU AGPL .. then that would most a very different discussion I think.

   • Embed this notice
     Lukas (darkcisum@swiss.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 17:17:53 JST Lukas

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt

     @amszmidt Okay that makes sense. I guess in the original discussion around WordPress plugins, it could be argued to some degree that it's only about using plugins.

     From a plugin development perspective, where you're calling WordPress functions and having WordPress under GPL, it could also be argued, that you're using GPL code. As such, distributing your own plugin, which uses WordPress Core, could require for your plugin to be GPL licensed as well.

   • Embed this notice
     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 17:21:40 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Lukas

     @darkcisum That would be distribution, yeah. But I could make a plugin that I never distribute, or even bunch of changes to Wordpress that I never distribute. I'm under no obligation to share those, and those can have any license ... (but if I distribute, I need to accept the terms of the GNU GPL like any other copyright license).

   • Embed this notice
     Lukas (darkcisum@swiss.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Nov-2024 17:21:41 JST Lukas

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt

     @amszmidt You aren't accessing WordPress over the network. Plugins are bundles of PHP, HTML, JavaScript, etc. that are deployed within the WordPress installation, they import WordPress Core files and directly call WordPress Core functions via PHP.