Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 20:48:36 JST 御園はくい

   • on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
   • 村上さん
   @AureoleArk この件 @lain とかに相談したことありましたか
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 20:48:34 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to
     look at this shit. that translates to ~20 http requests to load a single post if it was viewed on a *roma instance
     image.png
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 20:48:35 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to
     did a quick look at https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/-/merge_requests/3845/diffs and i'm pretty sure i'm right
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 20:48:36 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to
     >"we're getting DDOS'd by requests from akkoma and pleroma!!"
     first guess that comes to mind is misskey.io having more custom emoji reacts than there are zyouyou kanzi and because they're remote servers they have to send a request for every single f---ing emoji react, instead of serving it along with the rest of the page content
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:17:23 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to
     >gets ddos'd by themselves
     >invent Misskey® Reactions Buffering Technology™ https://github.com/misskey-dev/misskey/commit/0b062f1407688906483e2427d87b708ce1a2dc47
     >other fedi software obviously does not have Misskey® Reactions Buffering Technology™
     >continues getting ddos'd by those software
     well no shit
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:25:56 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui if you're using http/2 who cares
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:27:16 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui also run a cache this is the same as ppl complaining that link posting on mastodon is a ddos i thonk
   • Embed this notice
     ロミンちゃん (romin@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:32:21 JST ロミンちゃん

     in reply to
     @hakui time to find the next bleroma exploit :l_heh:
   • Embed this notice
      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:32:21 JST 

     in reply to

     • ロミンちゃん
     @romin @hakui Perchance.
     https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/-/issues/3335
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:32:22 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • ロミンちゃん
     @romin thankfully i never update
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:32:23 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • ロミンちゃん
     @romin custom emoji reacts were a mistake
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ロミンちゃん (romin@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:32:23 JST ロミンちゃん

     in reply to
     @hakui so when is misono-ya.info gonna accept then
   • Embed this notice
     ロミンちゃん (romin@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:32:24 JST ロミンちゃん

     in reply to
     @hakui a federated network of bloat
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:40:19 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • :blank:
     @i @hakui there are tons of problems in every implementation so knowing the right thing to do is really hard, ap devs don't understand http status codes
   • Embed this notice
     :blank: (i@declin.eu)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:40:20 JST :blank:

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun @hakui also the recent change to 20 retries and bugs in how those retries don't stop on obvious errors in 2.7.0, but who cares about making a release anyway
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:47:54 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui http/2 was invented specifically for this scenario
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:47:55 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun from what i can tell Misskey® Reactions Buffering Technology™ batches up multiple requests for emoji reacts into a single one
     
     meanwhile the *romas are just doing one request for each custom emoji react
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:49:08 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun but are the *romas using it to fetch the custom emojis
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:49:08 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui yes if the misskey server is using it
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 21:51:00 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui it basically holds open the tcp connection to the server between requests
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 22:50:49 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui they are separate files, you should be able to handle that part
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 22:50:50 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun but does it reduce the number of requests though
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 22:55:32 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui I am guessing what is happening is that servicing the images is behind the application layer instead of being cached.
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 22:55:33 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun but is it being handled properly right now
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 22:56:17 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui they really need to provide a lot more information before can tell what's going on
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:03:50 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui this just shouldn't be a problem to service the requests. the devil is in the details though
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:03:51 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun my current guess is the initial fetching
     
     *roma does caching for remote custom emojis, but you still have to fetch it the first time
     
     thing is misskey.io has more custom emoji than there are kanzi so it's more likely than not the custom emoji being federated over isn't in the cache
     
     the complaint is for the high number of http requests, not for the load on their server
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     eal (eal@post.ebin.club)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:05:29 JST eal

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui @sun >thing is misskey.io has more custom emoji than there are kanzi so
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:07:16 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui in the case that the complaint is just plain there are a lot of legitimate requests, more than they want to service, dunno what to say.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:15:51 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui very tentatively what it appears to me is there's a bottleneck in misskey, they papered over the bottleneck in their own code, so now it's not a problem for other misskey servers, but it's not a suitable general purpose solution you can force on other servers, there's a right way to do that and they did a shortcut that only works on misskey. so now the "problem" is other servers.
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:15:52 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun the problem then becomes "they plan to defederate *roma instances outright instead of mitigating the issue"
     Sick Sun repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:16:31 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun yes that's my guess exactly
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:19:00 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui the accumulation of events like these are why I am bearish on decentralized services long-term. the protocol is under constant pressure to fix things in incorrect ways that accumulate consequences and technical debt that can never be gotten rid of because of all the different servers.
   • Embed this notice
     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:19:08 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui @sun of course they have a lot of requests coming from *roma, it's literally the only other software that supports emoji reacts. if mastodon had them, it would be even more coming from there i wager
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:20:49 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun enjoy it while it lasts i guess
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:21:19 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui people should still attempt ambitious projects
   • Embed this notice
     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:24:15 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui @sun yeah, it's just one instance, so not exactly indicative. Mastodon servers tend to be much bigger than pleroma so actually I think it would be MUCH worse if mastodon supported it. I have no idea how you're supposed to batch request multiple emojis at once unless they've made yet another special magic unstandardized misskey api* that can do that in some weird way like sending them in a zip file.
     
     *pleroma has such an api for requesting entire emoji packs at once, but it's not used to fetch emojis normally and nobody else bothered to support emoji packs with metadata like those pleroma has. This could definetely be one solution to the problem, but it would mean emoji creators would need to make packs of reasonable size and not 10 thousand emojis in one pack, which is not really possible.
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:24:16 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • vaartis running up that hill
     • Sick Sun
     @vaartis @sun fedibird runs their own fork that supports it, but of course they're only one server
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:25:07 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @hakui something I've settled on is this network should be known as anti-advertising extremists
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:25:08 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun as long as they stop using fedi as a shortcut to user growth and then cutting us off once we outlive their usefulness
   • Embed this notice
     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:25:23 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • vaartis running up that hill
     • Sick Sun
     @hakui @sun
     > I have no idea how you're supposed to batch request multiple emojis at once
     This is of course unless you use HTTP/2 in as moon said
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:25:59 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • vaartis running up that hill
     @vaartis @hakui I am just guessing they aren't bypassing their appserver servicing emoji image requests so it's sucking up a load of resources.
   • Embed this notice
     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:37:45 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • vaartis running up that hill
     • Sick Sun
     @hakui @sun for mediaproxy you set it up like this and nginx will intercept requests to this address and they'll never even hit the actual instance, because the files will be served from cache
     image.png
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:37:47 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui @sun the admin is supposed to configure their server so that it looks like a direct url but in actuality is passed to a cache. This is how mediaproxy works for pleroma
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:37:48 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • vaartis running up that hill
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @vaartis well the *roma code for fetching remote custom emoji reacts is a direct url to the image i think, so
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro, now on Mitra! (mischievoustomato@mitra.taihou.website)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:37:55 JST Johnny Peligro, now on Mitra!

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun

     @sun @hakui it'd be funny if the decentralized experiment's results are "just use a centralized service, it's not worth the hassle"

     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:38:11 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun @hakui if only one could expect admins of huge incredible big and bulky software to set up proper caching with proper caching techology that has existed for years and years by now. Of course, this is unless they did all of that and the cache isn't being hit because, for example, are too many emojis and the cache gets purged because keeping so many in memory at once might be an issue
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:39:36 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • vaartis running up that hill
     @vaartis @hakui in a decentralized system, bespoke solutions that work around particular implementation problms should be avoided
     iced depresso and Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 like this.
   • Embed this notice
     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:39:37 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui @sun well, there are 3 ways this can go then
     1. There is some sort of mutual agreement established on fetching remote emojis in batches
     2. They make sure they have HTTP/2 enabled and ignore the stats because they're irrelevant
     3. They do neither and block the only other software (besides some forks) that supports emoji reacts
     
     I feel like 1 is not very likely to happen
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:39:38 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • vaartis running up that hill
     • Sick Sun
     @vaartis @sun if they have a cache in place then yes, my money is on them having way too much shit for the cache to work
   • Embed this notice
     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:43:05 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun @hakui unfortunately my reply to this is I cannot see how such an amount of emoji reacts, or emojis for that matter, can scale. Pleroma already does everything it can to not re-fetch emojis if you have mediaproxy enabled.
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:43:35 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • vaartis running up that hill
     @vaartis @hakui this is the penalty for running a server that is too large but of course now they will make it everyone else's problems
   • Embed this notice
     ロミンちゃん (romin@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:48:41 JST ロミンちゃん

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui @sun
     >defederate *roma instances
     I don't see how this is a problem
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 23:48:41 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     • ロミンちゃん
     @romin @sun for one, the artists with three digit iq moved to misskey instead of bluesky, and i'd prefer continuing to see their stuff on my twkn
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 00:09:35 JST 

     in reply to

     • 7666
     • Sick Sun
     @7666 @sun @hakui It's pisskey. A fediverse equivalent of chink combine apps, written in a language intended to be used to put a snowfall animation on webpages.
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     7666 (7666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 00:09:37 JST 7666

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @hakui @sun maybe if they spent less time jacking off to catboy maids and drawings of schoolgirls they'd be able to figure out how HTTP works
     
     also that sort of traffic isn't really crazy, i'm sitting shy of 20 mil requests a day (4 servers load balanced)
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 00:29:13 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • 
     • 7666
     • Sick Sun
     @mint @7666 @sun hey, at least they moved away from mongodb
      and Sick Sun like this.
   • Embed this notice
     mr64bit (mr64bit@p.mr64.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 00:36:36 JST mr64bit

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun @hakui http/1.1 already does this. h2 multiplexes multiple requests on a single connection.
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 00:36:55 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun @hakui so in the end there's not much we ought to do about it
     Sick Sun likes this.