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   Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 02:55:26 JST Griffith
   “Free will” but you can’t choose to be good isn’t free will. If humans can’t choose to be blameless it’s not free will. If the failure for the test is eternal damnation then it’s not really love.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 02:55:25 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to
     @Griffith Augustinian type response, but less good because I'm not as smart.
     What is good? Jesus Christ said "No one is good except God". We have a choice in behaving in the ways which please God, or the ways which don't. The nature of the world around us makes it functionally impossible to be "good" on our own merits alone, as a result of mistakes of our ancestors. That we were offered a second chance rather than bound by the same curses which afflict them is love. A lack of love would be to tell us "we cannot be redeemed" (Satan soyjak screaming DO NOT REDEEM SOUL!) and the only one who says that is Satan and his demons.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 03:32:45 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to
     @Griffith >Original sin and what it means
     This is a concept that is probably best answered by a priest/pastor/scholar of sorts, but I will try my best to give my understanding. Whether it is the state of MAN or the state of NATURE (e.g. the world) or both MAN and NATURE is a question, but we know nature itself is cursed per Genesis 3:17:
     >And to Adam He said:
     >“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat, cursed is the ground because of you; through toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
     Nature is cursed, and because of this we're living in a fallen/cursed world. It is extremely difficult to keep your soul clean of filth, such that even the most exceptional will ultimately fail in some way. Sacrifices for repentance were done at first, but Christ was the ultimate plan.
     
     >So why did God allow this situation to come to be?
     God wanted to create beings which loved him rather than automatons that obeyed without free will. Allowing for fall and choice of redemption was the best possible solution to account for this according to His perfect knowledge.
     
     >So why not just kick the snake out of the Garden?
     Satan was condemned to hell, not as its ruler but as its intended victim/prisoner.
     >What did humanity do to deserve this curse of an existence in the first place
     Original sin of disobedience. God said "literally do anything except for this" and our oldest ancestors decided to be like toddlers and do the one thing they were told not to do. It's worth noting that, at least as far as I'm aware, the rebellious angels were NOT offered redemption, unlike humanity.
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     Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 03:32:46 JST Griffith

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle Unless a person is damned.
     I’m told a person always chooses damnation, but that doesn’t make any sense from the premise that man must sin in life. If man had a choice he wouldn’t sin, because sin is unjustifiable on its own merits. But he doesn’t have a choice, and he can’t control what his ancestors did, so he’s boxed in, so where does “he chooses to be damned” come in? No one wants that, but like you said, no person can escape it. So why did God allow this situation to come to be? It’s not like sin is justifiable, so there can’t be a greater good that can come from sin, or else it wouldn’t be evil. So why not just kick the snake out of the Garden? Why not just put the tree out of arms reach? If you told your kids not to play with a chainsaw, and you came home and saw they’d chopped both their hands off, and there was a suspicious looking man next to them who had talked them into it, would you kick them out of the house? Where is the justice in all this? What did humanity do to deserve this curse of an existence in the first place, that is unsalvagable, except with the grace of a being that could’ve stopped this whole chain of events from occurring in the first place, which is unjustifiable due to the nature of sin.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ repeated this.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 03:42:16 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
     @Xenophon @Griffith Griffith is asking in good faith and deserves an answer in kind. I don't think you're going to bully him into letting go on an existential crisis concern. I've been there many years ago myself.
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     Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 03:42:17 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     GOD IS SO MEAN!!!! WHY DID HE CREATE ME!!!!!
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 03:54:43 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
     @Xenophon @Griffith I have a hard time reading KJV. I can read it, but it's not enjoyable. Been into BSB lately
     >BuT iT gEtS EaSieR iF yOu Do iT mOrE!
     Yeah, nah. 😎
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     Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 03:54:45 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     I'm paraphrasing Paul, aksually 😏
     
     17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
     
     18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
     
     19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
     
     20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
     
     21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
     
     22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
     
     23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
     
     24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Judeans only, but also of the Nations?
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 04:18:55 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to
     @Griffith

     but where does pride come from for an angel?

     Elevating oneself above God. Ezekiel 28:11-19

     11Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12“Son of man, take up a lament for the king of Tyre and tell him that this is what the Lord GOD says:‘You were the seal of perfection,full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.13You were in Eden,the garden of God. Every kind of precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald.Your mountings and settings were crafted in gold, prepared on the day of your creation. 14You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for I had ordained you. You were on the holy mountain of God; you walked among the fiery stones. 15From the day you were created you were blameless in your ways— until wickedness was found in you. 16By the vastness of your trade, you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mountain of God, and I banished you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. 17Your heart grew proud of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor; so I cast you to the earth; I made you a spectacle before kings. 18By the multitude of your iniquities and the dishonesty of your trading you have profaned your sanctuaries. So I made fire come from within you, and it consumed you. I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the eyes of all who saw you. 19All the nations who know you are appalled over you. You have come to a horrible end and will be no more.’ ”

     Dante Not scripture and not considered close to the same level. A neat concept, but mostly just that.

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     Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 04:18:56 JST Griffith

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle Free will and sin don’t seem compatible due to the nature of sin. I suppose that argument has to be btfo by Adam and Eve sinning, but it still doesn’t feel right. If man had free will he would never sin, because sin is never justifiable, so whence sin cometh? Same for Satan. He fell to pride, but where does pride come from for an angel?
     And shouldn’t he be in hell not heaven? Shouldn’t he be in hell, not in paradise talking to two innocent people? Shouldn’t he be in a block of ice nine layers down, not leading the only two humans in existence astray? Don’t we know from Job that Satan goes where he likes, talks to who he likes, converses and makes bets with God? He doesn’t seem very punished, or it’s not that clear and simple from what we know. None of it is. The Bible seems incomplete and like it’s missing context. There’s clearly more to the story than what we’re told, it doesn’t make sense on its face, and this is, one of, the reasons I’m skeptical of it. It doesn’t make sense. It should be common sense that Satan, or for someone who doesn’t believe it’s Satan, a malicious snake, should be hanging in the Garden. That’s paradise, not a community center.
     If Dante was right and Satan was in a block of ice nine layers down he wouldn’t threaten anybody and you wouldn’t need to worry about him. You’d only want to know of him as the first example of sin and look upon him like a museum exhibit or a monument.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 04:37:44 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to
     @Griffith >If he had wisdom he wouldn’t elevate himself above God, surely?
     Pride cometh before the fall
     >Where does corruption come for an angel?
     Pride. Placing himself above God, or in some other way disobeying God. I don't know the specifics. Islam says it was because of jealousy of Man being God's favorite creation above even the angels, which I've always found interesting.
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     Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 04:37:46 JST Griffith

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle “You have come to a horrible end and will be no more.” Does this mean Satan is no more? Does that mean he’s gone?
     It still doesn’t explain whence pride comes from. If he had wisdom he wouldn’t elevate himself above God, surely?
     Where does corruption come for an angel?
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     :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad: (rmiv@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 05:33:38 JST :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad:

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     @Griffith @BowsacNoodle
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     Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2023 12:49:32 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     I actually hate the kjv. I do bot find it fun to read and i have a Physical aversion when people call i5he "true" translation. There are obvious errors all throughout it.
     
     It just happened to bewhatloaded when i copied this. As far as mainstream Bibles, i ike the holmens and rsv for readability, but iim sure american standard amd oters work also, and i like the ylt for comprehension
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.