{"generator":"GNU social 2.0.2-dev","title":"Conversation","totalItems":5,"items":[{"actor":{"id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech","displayName":"Gentleman Technologist","status_net":{"avatarLinks":[{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-original-tmp20250116051713.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":400,"height":400},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-96-20250119045342.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-48-20250119045342.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":48,"height":48},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-24-20250119045342.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":24,"height":24}],"profile_info":{"local_id":"274627"}},"image":{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-96-20250119045342.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},"objectType":"person","summary":"Wandering technologist, building stuff while travelling. Interested in the business and social impacts of technology. Anarchist tendencies. Opposed to crypto, billionaires, plagiarist LLMs, christo-fascism, and runaway capitalism. Unusual opinions for someone with an MBA. Supports gender-neutral writing, people being able to do whatever they like as long as it's consensual, world peace.","url":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/@GentlemanTech","portablecontacts_net":{"preferredUsername":"GentlemanTech","displayName":"Gentleman Technologist","note":"Wandering technologist, building stuff while travelling. Interested in the business and social impacts of technology. Anarchist tendencies. Opposed to crypto, billionaires, plagiarist LLMs, christo-fascism, and runaway capitalism. Unusual opinions for someone with an MBA. Supports gender-neutral writing, people being able to do whatever they like as long as it's consensual, world peace."}},"content":"

@dalias<\/a> @iris_meredith<\/a> I\u2019ve never actually used any formal methods so I bow to your experience.<\/p>

The main problem we see in using LLMs to code is the non-determinism. And the main advantage is that the amount of code doesn\u2019t matter too much (within bounds of the context window, but those are growing). So we currently write tons of tests. But tests can\u2019t prove there are no errors, whereas formal methods can.<\/p>

If not formal methods then something like them<\/p>","generator":{"id":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-08-10:notice-source:ActivityPub","objectType":"application","status_net":{"source_code":"ActivityPub"}},"id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech\/statuses\/116899461627338162","object":{"id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech\/statuses\/116899461627338162","objectType":"note","content":"

@dalias<\/a> @iris_meredith<\/a> I\u2019ve never actually used any formal methods so I bow to your experience.<\/p>

The main problem we see in using LLMs to code is the non-determinism. And the main advantage is that the amount of code doesn\u2019t matter too much (within bounds of the context window, but those are growing). So we currently write tons of tests. But tests can\u2019t prove there are no errors, whereas formal methods can.<\/p>

If not formal methods then something like them<\/p>","url":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/@GentlemanTech\/116899461627338162","status_net":{"notice_id":null},"inReplyTo":{"objectType":"note","id":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/users\/dalias\/statuses\/116899437613683971","url":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/@dalias\/116899437613683971"}},"to":[{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/person","id":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/users\/dalias"},{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/person","id":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/users\/iris_meredith"},{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/collection","id":"http:\/\/activityschema.org\/collection\/public"}],"status_net":{"conversation":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-07-11:objectType=thread:nonce=c8c338b274176ddd","notice_info":{"local_id":"12874120","source":"ActivityPub"}},"published":"2026-07-11T04:45:40+00:00","provider":{"objectType":"service","displayName":"GNU social JP","url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/"},"verb":"post","url":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/@GentlemanTech\/116899461627338162"},{"actor":{"id":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/users\/dalias","displayName":"Rich Felker","status_net":{"avatarLinks":[{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-original-tmp20221202140938.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":400,"height":400},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-96-20221207231635.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-48-20221207231635.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":48,"height":48},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-24-20221207231635.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":24,"height":24}],"profile_info":{"local_id":"40873"}},"image":{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-96-20221207231635.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},"objectType":"person","summary":"C librarian, purveyor of the language's eldritch horrors. Poppin' shells \ud83e\uddaa","url":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/@dalias","portablecontacts_net":{"preferredUsername":"dalias","displayName":"Rich Felker","note":"C librarian, purveyor of the language's eldritch horrors. Poppin' shells \ud83e\uddaa"}},"content":"

@GentlemanTech<\/a> @iris_meredith<\/a> 1. It's not a matter of experience but first principles.<\/p>

2. The problem is absolutely not non determinism. Non determinism is a choice the slop vendors made. The problem is lack of any model of reality, reasoning, and intent behind what's emitted. It's purely a model of common language usage.<\/p>","generator":{"id":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-08-10:notice-source:ActivityPub","objectType":"application","status_net":{"source_code":"ActivityPub"}},"id":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/users\/dalias\/statuses\/116899521278637344","object":{"id":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/users\/dalias\/statuses\/116899521278637344","objectType":"note","content":"

@GentlemanTech<\/a> @iris_meredith<\/a> 1. It's not a matter of experience but first principles.<\/p>

2. The problem is absolutely not non determinism. Non determinism is a choice the slop vendors made. The problem is lack of any model of reality, reasoning, and intent behind what's emitted. It's purely a model of common language usage.<\/p>","url":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/@dalias\/116899521278637344","status_net":{"notice_id":null},"inReplyTo":{"objectType":"note","id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech\/statuses\/116899461627338162","url":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/@GentlemanTech\/116899461627338162"}},"to":[{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/person","id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech"},{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/person","id":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/users\/iris_meredith"},{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/collection","id":"http:\/\/activityschema.org\/collection\/public"}],"status_net":{"conversation":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-07-11:objectType=thread:nonce=c8c338b274176ddd","notice_info":{"local_id":"12874122","source":"ActivityPub"}},"published":"2026-07-11T04:45:38+00:00","provider":{"objectType":"service","displayName":"GNU social JP","url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/"},"verb":"post","url":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/@dalias\/116899521278637344"},{"actor":{"id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech","displayName":"Gentleman Technologist","status_net":{"avatarLinks":[{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-original-tmp20250116051713.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":400,"height":400},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-96-20250119045342.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-48-20250119045342.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":48,"height":48},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-24-20250119045342.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":24,"height":24}],"profile_info":{"local_id":"274627"}},"image":{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/274627-96-20250119045342.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},"objectType":"person","summary":"Wandering technologist, building stuff while travelling. Interested in the business and social impacts of technology. Anarchist tendencies. Opposed to crypto, billionaires, plagiarist LLMs, christo-fascism, and runaway capitalism. Unusual opinions for someone with an MBA. Supports gender-neutral writing, people being able to do whatever they like as long as it's consensual, world peace.","url":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/@GentlemanTech","portablecontacts_net":{"preferredUsername":"GentlemanTech","displayName":"Gentleman Technologist","note":"Wandering technologist, building stuff while travelling. Interested in the business and social impacts of technology. Anarchist tendencies. Opposed to crypto, billionaires, plagiarist LLMs, christo-fascism, and runaway capitalism. Unusual opinions for someone with an MBA. Supports gender-neutral writing, people being able to do whatever they like as long as it's consensual, world peace."}},"content":"

@iris_meredith<\/a> I\u2019m really interested to see how the core tech adapts to this change. As you say, we haven\u2019t had anything really *new* in ~50 years, pretty much since we invented compilers. That allowed a ton of new things, e.g dynamic languages.<\/p>

My guess is that formal methods become practical (and then ubiquitous). They\u2019re hassle for a manual coder to do, and don\u2019t add much. But for an LLM that\u2019s prone to hallucinations but fast at writing boilerplate\u2026 perfect.<\/p>","generator":{"id":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-08-10:notice-source:ActivityPub","objectType":"application","status_net":{"source_code":"ActivityPub"}},"id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech\/statuses\/116899411161902642","object":{"id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech\/statuses\/116899411161902642","objectType":"note","content":"

@iris_meredith<\/a> I\u2019m really interested to see how the core tech adapts to this change. As you say, we haven\u2019t had anything really *new* in ~50 years, pretty much since we invented compilers. That allowed a ton of new things, e.g dynamic languages.<\/p>

My guess is that formal methods become practical (and then ubiquitous). They\u2019re hassle for a manual coder to do, and don\u2019t add much. But for an LLM that\u2019s prone to hallucinations but fast at writing boilerplate\u2026 perfect.<\/p>","url":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/@GentlemanTech\/116899411161902642","status_net":{"notice_id":null},"inReplyTo":{"objectType":"note","id":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/users\/iris_meredith\/statuses\/116899325800732955","url":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/@iris_meredith\/116899325800732955"}},"to":[{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/person","id":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/users\/iris_meredith"},{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/collection","id":"http:\/\/activityschema.org\/collection\/public"}],"status_net":{"conversation":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-07-11:objectType=thread:nonce=c8c338b274176ddd","notice_info":{"local_id":"12874068","source":"ActivityPub"}},"published":"2026-07-11T04:24:24+00:00","provider":{"objectType":"service","displayName":"GNU social JP","url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/"},"verb":"post","url":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/@GentlemanTech\/116899411161902642"},{"actor":{"id":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/users\/dalias","displayName":"Rich Felker","status_net":{"avatarLinks":[{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-original-tmp20221202140938.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":400,"height":400},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-96-20221207231635.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-48-20221207231635.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":48,"height":48},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-24-20221207231635.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":24,"height":24}],"profile_info":{"local_id":"40873"}},"image":{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/40873-96-20221207231635.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},"objectType":"person","summary":"C librarian, purveyor of the language's eldritch horrors. Poppin' shells \ud83e\uddaa","url":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/@dalias","portablecontacts_net":{"preferredUsername":"dalias","displayName":"Rich Felker","note":"C librarian, purveyor of the language's eldritch horrors. Poppin' shells \ud83e\uddaa"}},"content":"

@GentlemanTech<\/a> @iris_meredith<\/a> I don't think so. Formal methods are useless without being able to express precisely and formally what the requirements are. Which is all programming is. There is no shortcut to bypass that.<\/p>","generator":{"id":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-08-10:notice-source:ActivityPub","objectType":"application","status_net":{"source_code":"ActivityPub"}},"id":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/users\/dalias\/statuses\/116899437613683971","object":{"id":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/users\/dalias\/statuses\/116899437613683971","objectType":"note","content":"

@GentlemanTech<\/a> @iris_meredith<\/a> I don't think so. Formal methods are useless without being able to express precisely and formally what the requirements are. Which is all programming is. There is no shortcut to bypass that.<\/p>","url":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/@dalias\/116899437613683971","status_net":{"notice_id":null},"inReplyTo":{"objectType":"note","id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech\/statuses\/116899411161902642","url":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/@GentlemanTech\/116899411161902642"}},"to":[{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/person","id":"https:\/\/cyberplace.social\/users\/GentlemanTech"},{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/person","id":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/users\/iris_meredith"},{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/collection","id":"http:\/\/activityschema.org\/collection\/public"}],"status_net":{"conversation":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-07-11:objectType=thread:nonce=c8c338b274176ddd","notice_info":{"local_id":"12874069","source":"ActivityPub"}},"published":"2026-07-11T04:24:23+00:00","provider":{"objectType":"service","displayName":"GNU social JP","url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/"},"verb":"post","url":"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/@dalias\/116899437613683971"},{"actor":{"id":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/users\/iris_meredith","displayName":"Iris","status_net":{"avatarLinks":[{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/292381-original-tmp20241105215532.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":400,"height":400},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/292381-96-20241105215532.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/292381-48-20241105215532.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":48,"height":48},{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/292381-24-20241105215532.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":24,"height":24}],"profile_info":{"local_id":"292381"}},"image":{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/avatar\/292381-96-20241105215532.webp","rel":"avatar","type":"image\/webp","width":96,"height":96},"objectType":"person","summary":"That problematic person who keeps popping up in your feeds. Blogs (or, according to HackerNews "seed[s] extreme left wing ideas into the minds of vulnerable HN members with my demented, violent writing") at https:\/\/deadsimpletech.com\/blog\/posts","url":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/@iris_meredith","portablecontacts_net":{"preferredUsername":"iris_meredith","displayName":"Iris","note":"That problematic person who keeps popping up in your feeds. Blogs (or, according to HackerNews "seed[s] extreme left wing ideas into the minds of vulnerable HN members with my demented, violent writing") at https:\/\/deadsimpletech.com\/blog\/posts"}},"content":"

Another thought: a large part of why LLMs have been having so much of an effect is that in tech, *most of the work we're currently doing involves exploiting assets that were largely built decades ago*. We aren't really developing new core technologies so much as we're trying to squeeze extra value out of what we already have.<\/p>","generator":{"id":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-08-10:notice-source:ActivityPub","objectType":"application","status_net":{"source_code":"ActivityPub"}},"id":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/users\/iris_meredith\/statuses\/116899325800732955","object":{"id":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/users\/iris_meredith\/statuses\/116899325800732955","objectType":"note","content":"

Another thought: a large part of why LLMs have been having so much of an effect is that in tech, *most of the work we're currently doing involves exploiting assets that were largely built decades ago*. We aren't really developing new core technologies so much as we're trying to squeeze extra value out of what we already have.<\/p>","url":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/@iris_meredith\/116899325800732955","status_net":{"notice_id":null}},"to":[{"objectType":"http:\/\/activitystrea.ms\/schema\/1.0\/collection","id":"http:\/\/activityschema.org\/collection\/public"}],"status_net":{"conversation":"tag:gnusocial.jp,2026-07-11:objectType=thread:nonce=c8c338b274176ddd","notice_info":{"local_id":"12874065","source":"ActivityPub"}},"published":"2026-07-11T04:22:40+00:00","provider":{"objectType":"service","displayName":"GNU social JP","url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/"},"verb":"post","url":"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/@iris_meredith\/116899325800732955"}],"links":[{"url":"https:\/\/gnusocial.jp\/conversation\/6541517","rel":"alternate","type":"text\/html"}]}